Star: Less crime could hurt Tories

[Hydrogen]

Funny thing about Harper is that he has performed better than thought as PM. While appearing very smooth in appearance and speech, it's a big contrast to the angry Reform Party member of years past. Maybe age and responsibility has mellowed him a little?

Yes, Dion looks very weak in comparison. After all, he was the Liberal compromise to keep both Ignatieff and Rae out of the leadership role, and what a compromise he is.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Yes, Dion looks very weak in comparison. After all, he was the Liberal compromise to keep both Ignatieff and Rae out of the leadership role, and what a compromise he is.

That's the odd thing about the Liberals, in that the leadership contenders can never put away their ambitions and dissappointment long enough to run the party, along with the fact that everyone seems to want to be the leader and thus spends most of their time planning for their future positioning.

On the other hand there is no one from the previous Conservative leadership races that even gives the slightest indication that they're bitter about losing and still positioning themselves for future leadership contention. Of course Harper would have them thrown out PDQ in a necessary ruthless manner, which is where Dion is wanting.

 

[adma]

Can you imagine stiff, unemotional and programmed Harper in a debate with Trudeau. Harper would be eaten alive, with Trudeau mocking and destroying him on live TV.

Hard to tell--depending on what stage of Trudeau's career we're taking about, such mocking/destroying could actually elicit an ironic sympathy vote for Harper. He may be stiff, but he's no Joe Clark.

Indeed, flip around the scenario, and you might have Harper in Trudeau's seat, Dion in Harper's seat, one "mocking and destroying" the other--and Dion, believe it or not, ironically benefitting.

 

[BuildTO]

I guess when I went door to door in 89 Isabella with a petition to have cameras installed in the building after 4 cars (including mine) were broken into in the same night and dozens of tenants said they simply left their cars unlocked at night or that their insurance company had cut their comprehensive package off due to too many claims, I guess that was all illusory, too.

I lived on Isabella for years and never had my car broken into. I've also lived in Toronto all my life, and never been a victim of crime. Based on the responses in this thread, people like me are in the majority, which is in line with Statscan's findings.

Why would you assume the statistics are lies, simply because you've experienced crime?

 

[Dichotomy]

I lived on Isabella for years and never had my car broken into. I've also lived in Toronto all my life, and never been a victim of crime. Based on the responses in this thread, people like me are in the majority, which is in line with Statscan's findings.

Why would you assume the statistics are lies, simply because you've experienced crime?

The statistics are not necessarily lies - are they asking the right questions to the right people? I lived in 555 Sherbourne for 7 years. My car was broken into once. I never reported it. My car has been broken into already where I live now and I've only been there 22 months. My neighbor's Mercedes got nailed in December.
89 Isabella, for the record, was a nightmare. Half the cars had their windows down and doors unlocked. My apartment was broken into, as were the people above me on the same day. The police suspect the thief climbed up the balconies in broad daylight! Walk down any of the side streets (Gloucester, Maitland, Homewood, whatever) and you can easily find the remnants of smashed glass where some 'homeless' freak has broken into someone's car for Cds or pocket change. I suppose the fact that almost all apartments now have 2 locks must be an illusion. My ex and a friend of his just moved into 280 Wellesley and his friend is frightened because 3 or 4 times she has had someone trying to force her door - and she's only lived there since June!
The Vancouver Board of Trade is challenging StatsCanada's findings. The police can do nothing and most people are carrying $1,000 deductibles these days, so I would bet a lot of property crimes are going unreported.

Look at all the stolen bicycles that are being recovered from one man's storage facilities! The police readily admit that most of them are untraceable because they were not reported stolen! How do those fit into the 'stats?'

 

[PukeGreen]

The police can do nothing and most people are carrying $1,000 deductibles these days, so I would bet a lot of property crimes are going unreported.

Look at all the stolen bicycles that are being recovered from one man's storage facilities! The police readily admit that most of them are untraceable because they were not reported stolen! How do those fit into the 'stats?'

But as long as there have been crime statistics, there have been crimes that have been unreported. 10 years ago and 20 years ago I'm sure people's cars were being broken into by crackhead hobos, and most of them were not reported either. Deductibles go up proportionate to the cost of repair/replacement. So unless you can prove that there's some shiny new reason why more crimes aren't reported today relative to the past, I think the stats should remain reasonably comparable.

Count me in with the people who have lived downtown for many years (14.5 and counting) without being a victim of a single crime, petty or otherwise. That includes 4 years at Jarvis and Dundas, hardly a posh neighbourhood, and 5 years in the St Lawrence Market area, which is a brisk 5 minute walk from Regent Park.

Personally, the only time my family has been directly affected by crime was when I was a teenager in the early 90s and our rural summer home two hours north of the city was ransacked numerous times, with thousands of dollars in equipment (riding mower, weed trimmer, ATV, boats, etc) was stolen from our basement and padlocked shed. Downtown Toronto? So far so good.

These stats are saying that crime is down compared to in the past. It is not saying that there is no crime in Toronto. Anecdotal stories of individual crimes don't make those stats any less valid.

Of course I agree that the battle has not been won and there is much more we need to continue doing to knock those stats down further. But the type of helpless alarmism that the sensationalistic newspapers and TV stations like to push is not productive, and I'm tired of hearing a crime-ridden heckhole of a city described in the news that I simply don't see when I walk out my door.

 

[JasonParis]

Since we appear to be anecdote happy here, I may as well chime in...

All my experience with crime has been in the 905. My bike was stolen once from my Mississauga backyard in the 1980s and that same home was broken into a year later (while we were sleeping). In Brampton (about 10 years later), I looked out my bedroom window at 03:00 in the morning after hearing noises to see a man dressed in black standing in my backyward trying to figure out a way into the house. I turned on all the lights and he ran. Also, my mom's car windows were smashed and a portable CD-player and other items were stolen from her car after I parked it in the Gateway Cinemas in Brampton just before I moved downtown.

I've lived downtown over 10 years now and have yet to be victimized and have lived at Richmond W & Niagara, Queen E & Mutual and Richmond E & Sherbourne.

 

[syn]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has dismissed empirical evidence that crime rates are actually falling, suggesting that emotion is a more telling barometer. Harper has cast those who point to statistics to oppose elements of the Tory law-and-order agenda as apologists for criminals.

“(They) try to pacify Canadians with statistics,” he told party supporters in January.

“Your personal experiences and impressions are wrong, they say; crime is really not a problem. These apologists remind me of the scene from the Wizard of Oz when the wizard says, ’Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.”’

That assertion was echoed today by Justice Minister Rob Nicholson.

“We are not governing by statistics. We are governing by what we promised Canadians in the last election and what Canadians have told us,” he said in an interview.

LOL

How can anyone vote for these clowns after making such asinine statements?

 

[Hydrogen]

All he has to do is play up the idea that any softening of harsh anti-crime measures or prison sentences will result in an increase in crime.

He wouldn't be the first politician or politically minded person to suggest that the statistics don't reflect reality. Think about all those times you've come across a numerical claim for something that is stated to have gone unreported. It's faulty reasoning, but it's all too common a practice.