Standard vs TTC gauge; An LRT Standard in Ontario?

[Second_in_pie]

what does pantograph have to do with track gauge? i don't see one interfering with the other.

It has to do with track replacement and connecting the TC lines (which will probably be pantograph) with other lines. I think it's very relevant.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

It has to do with track replacement and connecting the TC lines (which will probably be pantograph) with other lines. I think it's very relevant.

you're telling me that the overhead wires and pantograph don't have more than 3cm left to 3cm right tolerances? how can having all TTC lines the same gauge cause problems?

 

[Second_in_pie]

you're telling me that the overhead wires and pantograph don't have more than 3cm left to 3cm right tolerances? how can having all TTC lines the same gauge cause problems?

Oh sorry, I misunderstood what Hipster Duck was trying to say. In fact, I still don't really understand I thought he was talking about replacing the old wires with new ones made to use pantograph, in which case I still think that would be relevant to the discussion.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

regardless of the gauge, the pantograph will always be centered to the track. even if the gauge should ever be changed, i don't see it making any difference to the positioning of the overhead wires and how the pantograph interacts with those wires.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Trolley wire is strung in a straight line while catenary wire zig zags, to avoid wearing a groove into the pantograph. It's easier to change than a track gauge, but it has problems nonetheless.

More importantly, I don't think that TC should be built to streetcar standards. It should have bigger clearances, more generous turning radii and not have vehicles that have to adapt to single point switches. So, we should keep TC separate from the legacy network and that can start with using standard gauge.

 

[Railization]

The trolley pole is on the way out. TTC is working on converting the existing system to pantograph.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

More importantly, I don't think that TC should be built to streetcar standards. It should have bigger clearances, more generous turning radii and not have vehicles that have to adapt to single point switches. So, we should keep TC separate from the legacy network and that can start with using standard gauge.

can the current streetcars tolerate a wider turning radius? what about the future streetcars (non-TC-LRT)?

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

More importantly, I don't think that TC should be built to streetcar standards. It should have bigger clearances, more generous turning radii and not have vehicles that have to adapt to single point switches. So, we should keep TC separate from the legacy network and that can start with using standard gauge.

TC could, of course, be built with larger radii, clearances, etc., and still use TTC gauge.

What benefit is there to having two gauges for surface level transport in one city? Why separate the TC lines from the "legacy" network? What benefit accrues from restricting the interchangeability of at least some equipment? Why make something more complex than it needs to be?

There is an established gauge, that works, and interferes with nothing why change? Because London & Paris have lines that have different equipment?

 

[Paleo]

TC could, of course, be built with larger radii, clearances, etc., and still use TTC gauge.

What benefit is there to having two gauges for surface level transport in one city? Why separate the TC lines from the "legacy" network? What benefit accrues from restricting the interchangeability of at least some equipment? Why make something more complex than it needs to be?

There is an established gauge, that works, and interferes with nothing why change? Because London & Paris have lines that have different equipment?

They would not be running equipment from the legacy network on the suburban lines anyway because they will be single-ended and incompatible with anything with centre platforms of crossover terminals.

 

[Railization]

They would not be running equipment from the legacy network on the suburban lines anyway because they will be single-ended and incompatible with anything with centre platforms of crossover terminals.

While centre platforms would be a definite incompatibility, most of TC would be using flanking platforms anyway. Only in underground stations would I actually expect to see a centre platform. While TC vehicles are capable of servicing centre platforms, the reason for having double doors is more because they're double ended and use cross-overs for turn-backs, not to serve island platforms. While legacy fleet is and will continue to be single-ended, that doesn't have to prevent them from using the TC network if the odd strategic loop is included in TC. Morningside and Kingston (and/or possibly UTSC) would be a great candidate for that if they extended the Kingston Rd. streetcar to Eglinton where it could meet the Scarborough-Malvern LRT. St.Clair could be another candidate with Jane, although that one gets complicated.

 

[Second_in_pie]

While centre platforms would be a definite incompatibility, most of TC would be using flanking platforms anyway. Only in underground stations would I actually expect to see a centre platform. While TC vehicles are capable of servicing centre platforms, the reason for having double doors is more because they're double ended and use cross-overs for turn-backs, not to serve island platforms. While legacy fleet is and will continue to be single-ended, that doesn't have to prevent them from using the TC network if the odd strategic loop is included in TC. Morningside and Kingston (and/or possibly UTSC) would be a great candidate for that if they extended the Kingston Rd. streetcar to Eglinton where it could meet the Scarborough-Malvern LRT. St.Clair could be another candidate with Jane, although that one gets complicated.

This is true, but they will eventually have to switch the whole network over to newer cars, won't they? Do they not plan on using the new cars for the Streetcar lines eventually? So many questions!

I was thinking of the Scarborough LRT- Kingston Road as well. Another one that work work well as a commuter line would be a Don Mills-King/Dundas line, if the Don Mills LRT ends up connecting to Broadview.

 

[Railization]

Two new car models are being ordered. Apart from one being single-ended and the other double-ended, my understanding is the TTC wants the two models to be as similar as possible.

 

[Second_in_pie]

In that case, will St. Clair be using the Downtown cars or the TTC cars?

 

[Railization]

Downtown. It has to, St.Clair and St.Clair West loops require it.

 

[EnviroTO]

I voted "No" only because it is worded "Ontario standard". I think Ottawa should be standard guage and it is in Ontario. Golden Horseshoe + K-W should be TTC guage. If London, Windsor, Sudbury, Sault, or Thunder Bay ever get LRT it should be standard guage. All new rail should be standard guage unless there is a reasonable assumption that at some point that system will either connect to or be maintained by an orginization which has a different guage.