Sprawl is Good for You?

[ssiguy2]

I stopped reading when Phoenix and Houston were lauded as model cities...

Some people do consider them model cities as it fits their lifestyle and budget.

In NA the cities that have the highest densities and the most stringent policies in terms of wanting to constrain sprawl are uniformly the most expensive to live in. This idea of increased density to create affordability is one of the biggest lies that urban policy wonks have thrust upon the public and politicians. Density has a direct impact on housing affordability and it's almost always negative. Every city in NA with higher densities is also amongst the most expensive. Vancouver loves to shoot density as needed for increased affordability..........hasn't worked out too well.

Toronto, Boston, SF, LA, NYC, Seattle all have higher densities and are the most expensive as opposed to sprawling cities like DAL/HOU/ATL/TB/PHX/LV/CHAR/KC/MSP which are large cities that are incredibly cheap. There are exception like Chicago city but that is unique due to the crime rates and poor civic services which keeps people away.

Some people don't care about going downtown for all the action. Some people don't want to live in a glorified walk-in-closet. Some people want their kids to have a backyard that can fit more than a picnic table. Some people want to be able to drive somewhere in record time and not wait for a bus or an endless transit commute. Some people don't want the noise of the city. Some people want to actually enjoy the fruits of their labour as opposed to spending it all on their mortgage or rent. Some people want to save for the kids education or have a nice vacation every year. Some people don't want their first child to come with a complimentary eviction notice.

I would not like Houston or Phoenix or any other sprawling mess of a place but a lot of people obviously do and what you and I want in a city is not necessarily what other want or need.

 

[TOareaFan]

Trust me buddy that was heavy, heavy smog. I know because I was there, it was back in summer 08 as far as I remember, and a combination of weather elements caused the smog to hang around for a long time at a low level.

We were just talking about smog days the other day.....what we observed was that there hadn't been any this year (that we could recall)...it was interesting because there used to be a pretty strong co-relation between the number of hot and humid days and the number of smog days. As many know here, I am far from being a Liberal Party supporter but, in the spirit of credit where credit is due, it certainly seems that, whatever the cost, the closure of our gas fired generators has done something good....we have just gone through the hottest most humid summer in recent memory....and (again, as far as I can recall) we did so without a single poor air quality day or, as we refer to them, "smog" days.

EDIT: Never mind....just re-read what I was responding to and did not realize that it was such an old post.....just clicked on the thread as it appeared in my "unread"....oops.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Used to be that one could just drive west past Highway 27 (now 427) to pick apples on Dixie or Cooksville orchards.

Now with the sprawl, you may have to drive an hour or so... until those orchards get "developed".

 

[doady]

Some people do consider them model cities as it fits their lifestyle and budget.

In NA the cities that have the highest densities and the most stringent policies in terms of wanting to constrain sprawl are uniformly the most expensive to live in. This idea of increased density to create affordability is one of the biggest lies that urban policy wonks have thrust upon the public and politicians. Density has a direct impact on housing affordability and it's almost always negative. Every city in NA with higher densities is also amongst the most expensive. Vancouver loves to shoot density as needed for increased affordability..........hasn't worked out too well.

Toronto, Boston, SF, LA, NYC, Seattle all have higher densities and are the most expensive as opposed to sprawling cities like DAL/HOU/ATL/TB/PHX/LV/CHAR/KC/MSP which are large cities that are incredibly cheap. There are exception like Chicago city but that is unique due to the crime rates and poor civic services which keeps people away.

Some people don't care about going downtown for all the action. Some people don't want to live in a glorified walk-in-closet. Some people want their kids to have a backyard that can fit more than a picnic table. Some people want to be able to drive somewhere in record time and not wait for a bus or an endless transit commute. Some people don't want the noise of the city. Some people want to actually enjoy the fruits of their labour as opposed to spending it all on their mortgage or rent. Some people want to save for the kids education or have a nice vacation every year. Some people don't want their first child to come with a complimentary eviction notice.

I would not like Houston or Phoenix or any other sprawling mess of a place but a lot of people obviously do and what you and I want in a city is not necessarily what other want or need.

High density is the result of high housing costs, not vice versa.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Who still thinks the motor vehicle is great?

 

[cplchanb]

Who still thinks the motor vehicle is great?

I DO!!! in all honesty though we'll never reach that capacity. sure the dvp sucks during the morning rushes but as important it is to have good transit it is equally important to also have good road networks in and out of the city... which is something that will plague Toronto for years to come

 

[Aldebaran]

Who still thinks the motor vehicle is great?

Good evening,

I do
The motor vehicle can both kill and save lives.
It is a neutral, inanimate object that can be both positive or negative depending on how wisely or foolishly it is treated.

And by the way, it is my belief that even those who think the motor vehicle is not great have only the motor vehicle to thank for thinking the way they do!
It was only through living in a civilization where the motor vehicle was invented and growing in a world whose population and goods (knowledge, talent, services therein) it has connected and transported that you were able to progress and think the way you do now. Whether you like it or not, you have climbed on top of the shoulders of the car, to ultimately want to reject it... just like Einstein did Newton, or the bicycle, a penny farthing.

And there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is perfectly normal. That's how progress works.

But it doesn't mean the motor vehicle is not great

 

[salsa]

The cascading social issues that result from over-reliance on driving.

 

[darth_freeman]

Used to be that one could just drive west past Highway 27 (now 427) to pick apples on Dixie or Cooksville orchards.

Now with the sprawl, you may have to drive an hour or so... until those orchards get "developed".

Such is the price of progress...and 300,000 immigrants/year.