Spate of Pedestrian Deaths in GTA

[kettal]

A few months ago I was making a right turn at Yonge & Sheppard waiting for pedestrians to clear the intersection. Well, the fellow behind me in Escalade thought he had enough, passed me and turned left while accelerating. He almost hit a pedestrian. That chap got impatient thinking probably that I should’ve used a small gap between people, so he showed me how it suppose to be done, in the process almost hitting a pedestrian…

Yes, I try to avoid intersections that I had a bad experience crossing; I agree that many of them should be converted to no-right turn. I disagree with your black and white "end of story/no exceptions" comment. What if there is a green light, but I still have a few pedestrians taking their time crossing the intersection? Should I just go, no exceptions? Oh yes, I am driving a metal box that gives me advantage (well, I drive Yaris). Then we need to be aware of the same type of advantage that bicycles have over pedestrians, small cars vs bicycles, SUV vs small cars, 16 wheelers vs SUV... My principle is to follow rules when possible and be aware of the situation at hand; it works for me as a driver and as a pedestrian.

What we need is slower speed limits, which are enforced. When you're not speeding, you can stop easier, you have better awareness of your surroundings, and if you do hit a pedestrian, it won't be fatal.

 

[kettal]

Christopher Hume!!!

"In recent days, officers have been telling Toronto pedestrians that it doesn't matter if they are in the right; cars are bigger and go faster. But, they remind us, it's pedestrians who get killed, not drivers.

That may be true, but one wonders whether the argument would hold if, for example, we were talking about domestic violence. Husbands tend to be bigger and stronger, so if you're a woman, just stay out of their way. Highly unlikely."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/756884--hume-maybe-we-d-all-be-safer-jaywalking?bn=1

 

[lead82]

Reducing speed limits can be quite a dangerous idea. People in the GTA generally ignore the posted speed limits because for the most part they are unreasonably low by about 10km/hr in some areas, like heavy arterial roads that should be 60km/hr are marked at 50km/hr.

The main issue is why are people in such a rush these days? This is the root cause of the pedestrian and many traffic accidents here. People are rushing to get from A to B and often times being selfish don't care about delaying anyone else in the process as long as they get to their destination ASAP. Reduced speed limits will cause more driver ire and rage and cause them to run more red lights, and do even more dangerous actions. You can't enforce every road and intersection for the entire day.

I think this is because our traffic congestion has reached a peak. It is heavy traffic now on most major routes all day from 7am to 7pm. The transit system is stuck at service levels and coverage of the 1970's but we are in 2010 and the city population and size has exploded since then. It used to be that most trips would take under 20-30 minutes to get around the city, now it takes about 1hr if not more to go from one side of the city to another. Heck, in some areas it can take 20mins just to get out of their neighbourhood in peak hours.

The politicians have done diddly squat about this in the last 30 years. No amount of band-aid solutions as are being proposed will fix the conflicts of sharing a narrow road space with cars, trams, buses, delivery trucks, couriers, taxis, cyclists and pedestrians. We need actual solutions.

I propose:
- Better transit in Toronto - New subway line downtown (DRL) paid for by central core congestion road toll, fast-tracked GO and regional rail service with 20 minute bi-directional service for 18hrs a day.
-New pedestrian districts in areas and streets with heavy pedestrian traffic. e.g. Kensington Market, Yorkville and Yonge St from Queen to Bloor.
-Maybe we need to add some underground crossings for pedestrians at heavy intersections to avoid the pedestrian/car conflicts.
-Restrict right turns outright in places with heavy pedestrian traffic (like Yonge/Dundas)

We need real solutions, not stop-gap measures that give politicians the illusion of doing something.

 

[kettal]

"-Restrict right turns outright in places with heavy pedestrian traffic (like Yonge/Dundas)"

This is already true of Yonge & Dundas, and many other downtown intersections. Of course, the no turning rule is ignored by most drivers.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Much of the 'enforcement' seems to be happening downtown but none of deaths have been downtown. Drivers are generally much more alert on the major downtown streets because the situation forces it.

I became a much better driver when I started driving around downtown Toronto. Habits I never really learned in Oakville - things like double-checking my right-hand side for cyclists when making a right turn on a green, for instance - are second nature to me now.

I don't think urban driving is really taught to young drivers. To get your G license, you're tested on your ability to drive on a 400-series highway. Maybe in the GTA you should also be tested on your ability to drive in a major urban centre?

 

[nfitz]

What if there is no gap? Well, you just reinforcing my point of being flexible... I can't count how many time I had to stop while making a left turn to avoid hitting a pedestrian who was crossing on the red.

You slow down before you hit them, stick your hand on your horn, wind down the window, give them the finger and go Bryant on them as you pass. Though if they grab onto your car as you drive away, I'd recommend braking instead of accelerating.

Much of the 'enforcement' seems to be happening downtown but none of deaths have been downtown. Drivers are generally much more alert on the major downtown streets because the situation forces it.

Indeed ... who would have thought the Toronto Police force didn't have the intelligence to figure out that none of the deaths were on crowded downtown streets in broad daylight.

 

[vz64]

Much of the 'enforcement' seems to be happening downtown but none of deaths have been downtown. Drivers are generally much more alert on the major downtown streets because the situation forces it. I became a much better driver when I started driving around downtown Toronto. ... Maybe in the GTA you should also be tested on your ability to drive in a major urban centre?

Good idea! I took my first driving test back in 1991 in Jerusalem. If you think it is a challenge to drive in London, New York, or Montreal, rent a car in Jerusalem for comparison... The streets are convoluted, some wide roads are one-way, many extremely narrow roads are two-way, lots of roundabouts, drivers and pedestrians obey no rules. Oh, and your test-drive inspector allowed to trick you on the test (e.g., asking you to turn where you cannot...). I had to take the test three times before passing it. And when you get you license, you need to humiliate yourself by displaying a "New Driver" plate in your rear window for a year.

When I came to Toronto back in 1992 I felt that the traffic here is extremely orderly, drivers are polite, and pedestrians are exemplary (this picture changed somewhat now). Even today I feel driving anywhere in Toronto is not a challenge.

Habits I never really learned in Oakville - things like double-checking my right-hand side for cyclists when making a right turn on a green, for instance - are second nature to me now.

Do you need a license to drive in Oakville? Driving in Oakville is like taking a relaxation class (unless you hit rush hour traffic on QEW).

 

[Admiral Beez]

All of these fatalities could have been avoided had people stayed out of the road space, or if they had to enter the road space, done so with caution and without any assumption of being seen or of vehicles automatically following legislated rules of the road.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In some cases, like downtown, the crosswalks should be wider. I have seen the crosswalk so crowded with people that they move outside the lines to get across the street, but hopefully they don't impede moving traffic when they do so.

 

[madmolecule]

I had been meaning to write a post earlier, so being stopped by a police officer downtown this morning reminded me! I confess that I actually didn't even know at first why he was stopping me - he said I had started crossing on the flashing red hand, in front of a car. I know that you're not supposed to cross on the flashing red, but I think the fact that I wasn't even conscious of it reflects how, if you observe the vast majority of pedestrians (myself included, I admit), they appear to interpret this particular signal by proceeding to cross (at least, I suppose, if they think they can make it in the number of seconds shown on the timer).

In the old days, I think there were just two pedestrian signals, for walk and don't walk... maybe it would be better if, when the timer comes on, the red pedestrian signal came on as solid and not flashing.

Lead82, I agree that the frustration of increased congestion probably causes drivers to drive more recklessly when they get an opening - I'm not saying that is right but it is human nature.

Regarding vz64's comment, beyond the impression of people who have lived in the city a long time (which would interest me too), it would be interesting to definitively compare motorists' and pedestrians' behaviour in the past and present (i.e., are driving speeds higher on the same stretch of road; do motorists and pedestrians obey the law less often), which would of course only be possible if such data from the past exist.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Pedestrians not crossing when the flashing red hand signal is up would cause, like, sidewalk traffic. On most crosswalks, the hand comes up when there is between 10 - 12 seconds left before the light cycle. Virtually every able-bodied person can make it across a road in that amount of time.

 

[nfitz]

How far does one take this not crossing on the countdown thing? One of the crossings I use every day the countdown starts at 23. And then it's a 2-3 minute wait until the next cycle. Even walking, it's only about 10 seconds to cross the road.

 

[W. K. Lis]

How many people are able to cross University Avenue when the pedestrians get started with their walk signal on Queen Street West? I have to almost do a racewalk or heel-and-toe race across Queen Street to get to the far corner.

 

[drone]

One of my theories is that since average actual road speeds are now about 10km over the legal limit on just about any major throughfare, drivers basically have to make 'snap' (my term) decisions and actions in order to keep smartly in the traffic flow. Pedestrians get hit because of what is essentially a low level state of frenzy in traffic; drivers have lost much of their ability to respond quickly to pedestrians as they focus mostly on other drivers and the road. 60km/hr on the Danforth gives no margin for error, especially with that group of drivers who use that fiction of a curb lane, swerving in and out.

It might also help if the standard colour of coat this season wasn't black. The ubiquitous dark pea coat/puffy long down coat for women paired with jeans is an invisible combination at night. When I learned to drive in 1972 the night was a riot of brightly coloured clothing.

As to getting hit by buses; I saw one woman trying to stop a bus by running in front of it and waving.

I agree with this post..I really have tried to be very patient and drive slow and cautious and I firmly believe that pedestrians, even though they may be at fault at times, are not the problem. It's people driving crazy fast. I try to take corners slow etc...but, when I look in my rear mirror, and I car is coming up behind me at 60km on Danforth, I have very little time to get out of the way, and I consequently make bad decisions, which could cost someone their life.

 

[GraphicMatt]

When I drive down Sherbourne to get to the Gardiner, it's always amazing to me to see people gunning it between lights. The crazy thing is that if you stay at about the speed limit on the road (40km/hr) you'll hit very few reds all the way down.