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SmartTrack (Proposed)

ssiguy2

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The idea of ST was a very good one...……….take advantage of the infrastructure you already have. Of course some will say that this is what RER does but there is one VERY big difference, ST would have a standard TTC fare. This is something RER doesn't offer and now that the co-fare is about to end, expect even fewer riders on the inner city GO stations.
 

blacksquirrels

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The idea of ST was a very good one...……….take advantage of the infrastructure you already have. Of course some will say that this is what RER does but there is one VERY big difference, ST would have a standard TTC fare. This is something RER doesn't offer and now that the co-fare is about to end, expect even fewer riders on the inner city GO stations.

ST would have been a good idea if it was more refined. I feel like if the Stouffville GO Line could have been downloaded to the city of Toronto post electrification, making it a subway line instead of remaining part of a commuter rail system. Same with the Richmond Hill GO Line, it could have been replaced or rolled into a new Relief/Ontario Line. There are a few recent examples of doing something similar to this with the Sydney Metro or the Elizabeth Line/Crossrail. Not sure how viable it would actually be to implement, but it seems more logically than anything currently planned if the goal is to actually attract ridership and move people more efficiently around the GTA.
 

micheal_can

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ST would have been a good idea if it was more refined. I feel like if the Stouffville GO Line could have been downloaded to the city of Toronto post electrification, making it a subway line instead of remaining part of a commuter rail system. Same with the Richmond Hill GO Line, it could have been replaced or rolled into a new Relief/Ontario Line. There are a few recent examples of doing something similar to this with the Sydney Metro or the Elizabeth Line/Crossrail. Not sure how viable it would actually be to implement, but it seems more logically than anything currently planned if the goal is to actually attract ridership and move people more efficiently around the GTA.

This is where the argument goes sideways. Leaving it as a heavy rail line not part of the relief or other lines is what makes it good for GO.
 

blacksquirrels

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This is where the argument goes sideways. Leaving it as a heavy rail line not part of the relief or other lines is what makes it good for GO.

I don't understand what you're trying to say exactly.

As is the Stouffville line attracts 15k riders per day. As an actual useful Metro line it could easily most likely attract more than 15k ppdph. How is the current GO line better for anyone?
 

crs1026

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I don't understand what you're trying to say exactly.

As is the Stouffville line attracts 15k riders per day. As an actual useful Metro line it could easily most likely attract more than 15k ppdph. How is the current GO line better for anyone?

Put those 15k riders back on roads, and you will see the problem. We will not solve anything by robbing one mode to build another.

Sports fans say we need a new stadium because Skydome has reached end of life. Hey, there’s a good spot up the street, next to Union Station. All we have to do is tear down the Scotia Arena and we can build there. Leafs only attract 20,000 fans but Jays attract 40,000 when they play well. Sorry, Leafs.

- Paul
 

micheal_can

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I don't understand what you're trying to say exactly.

As is the Stouffville line attracts 15k riders per day. As an actual useful Metro line it could easily most likely attract more than 15k ppdph. How is the current GO line better for anyone?

I am not saying it is better. I am saying that converting an express line into a regular subway line would degrade the service.

By all means, have subway lines follow GO lines, but never replace one with the other.
 

blacksquirrels

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I am not saying it is better. I am saying that converting an express line into a regular subway line would degrade the service.

By all means, have subway lines follow GO lines, but never replace one with the other.

Yeah I agree that makes the most sense. I've lived in cities with far more extensive transit services than TTC/GO combined. S-Bahn & RER make GO Transit look amateurish in comparison. I have little hope that any level of government in this country will ever build what is needed, but ideally there would be three levels of service local (TTC), regional (GO) and HSR. It'll never happen here though.
 

robmausser

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Yeah I agree that makes the most sense. I've lived in cities with far more extensive transit services than TTC/GO combined. S-Bahn & RER make GO Transit look amateurish in comparison. I have little hope that any level of government in this country will ever build what is needed, but ideally there would be three levels of service local (TTC), regional (GO) and HSR. It'll never happen here though.

Its unfortunate that I dont think Toronto will ever see a system like the S-Bahn, RER, Overground, etc, because we simply are terrified of looking at other cities for inspiration. If we do that, we have to admit that Toronto is not the center of the universe.
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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What SmartTrack should have been: a campaign to implement free transfers between TTC and GO services within the 416. Imagine where we could have been today if all the political capital expended by Tory was directed towards simply changing the fare structure of GO Transit, instead of overpromising on a flawed infrastructure megaproject.
Id have been happy if go trips within toronto were treated like a ttc express route. Which i belive the fare is double the normal ttc. So imagine paying ~$6 to travel from long branch to union and being able to transfer onto the subway...
 

micheal_can

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Yeah I agree that makes the most sense. I've lived in cities with far more extensive transit services than TTC/GO combined. S-Bahn & RER make GO Transit look amateurish in comparison. I have little hope that any level of government in this country will ever build what is needed, but ideally there would be three levels of service local (TTC), regional (GO) and HSR. It'll never happen here though.
Its unfortunate that I dont think Toronto will ever see a system like the S-Bahn, RER, Overground, etc, because we simply are terrified of looking at other cities for inspiration. If we do that, we have to admit that Toronto is not the center of the universe.

Smarttrack would be S-baun like.. We almost need a 3rd track to act as an express on the GO routes. Then we could add more stations and allow a better style of commuting.
 

sixrings

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At the end of the day when we elected John Tory transit city which had a ton of merit died. John Tory had to cut back stations, there is no fare integration, and Eglinton was always a mess. But elected John Tory also meant agreeing to a subway extension to Scarborough which was the death nail to both the Sheppard lrt and Eglinton east lrt. John Tory has been the head of the ship since 2014 (6 YEARS!) And all we have had Is meetings, meetings, meetings. I fail to see anything SMART in this plan.
 

micheal_can

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Id have been happy if go trips within toronto were treated like a ttc express route. Which i belive the fare is double the normal ttc. So imagine paying ~$6 to travel from long branch to union and being able to transfer onto the subway...

I almost feel each should be a different rate. Let's say Bus was $3. Streetcars could be $4, LRT, RT and Subway $5 and GO $6 within Toronto. This would do 2 things: First, it would lower the ridership of the higher order transit. Second, it would cause even more overloading of the buses.
 

blacksquirrels

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Smarttrack would be S-baun like.. We almost need a 3rd track to act as an express on the GO routes. Then we could add more stations and allow a better style of commuting.

Sounds great. So many people would use both RER and this type of service if it existed. So the real question is why isn't it being built or planned?
 

crs1026

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Sounds great. So many people would use both RER and this type of service if it existed. So the real question is why isn't it being built or planned?

The answer is - because there is only one right of way and both services won't fit.

There are places at the moment where there appears to be room for three tracks, but not throughout. A third track might not be enough, though - four tracks might be needed either in spots or altogether.

The expropriation cost to add enough width to the right of way to fit both in would be a very large number.

The other reason is that if the Line 2 extension proceeds, with intermediate stops, it would be likely to draw away enough ridership that the idea is no longer economically viable.

- Paul
 

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