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SmartTrack (Proposed)

Too bad all trains will have to stop at every station not allowing for express.

Who told you this? This is simply not true.

The plan is to have GO-RER trains stop at the inner GTA stations, and the bi Levels run express past them.

Just like what already happens on the Lakeshore Line and the Kitchener line during express hours.

The proof that every train won't stop at every station is the fact that the new GO RER stations don't have platforms long enough to accommodate the current bi-levels.
 
I wish.

He never figured out what RER was, and that Smartrack would be the same thing. So he ran on the city funding GO to do what GO had already promised to do

Which isn't overly a bad thing, if it means GO RER gets built sooner.

On a side thing Everyone is looking for a good Relief line for Yonge. Why not do the necessary upgrades to Richmond Hill Line? Then you can reasonably easily have a DRL quicker.
 
Which isn't overly a bad thing, if it means GO RER gets built sooner.

On a side thing Everyone is looking for a good Relief line for Yonge. Why not do the necessary upgrades to Richmond Hill Line? Then you can reasonably easily have a DRL quicker.

The Richmond Hill Line has some massive flaws.

First, it cannot be electrified and turned into GO-RER because it lays in a floodplain which regularly floods.

wea_ont_storms_20130708_topix.jpg


Second, even if flooding was not a problem, the corridor for Richmond Hill sucks. It is circituous rather than direct, and because of its location in the ravine, it cannot ever have a transfer point with Line 2. It is on the wrong side of the Don River for a connection with East Harbour/Relief Line, and a connection with the Eglinton Crosstown will also be challenging and expensive.

Third, it would be the most expensive GO route to upgrade because it would require an entirely new alignment south of Eglinton, in addition to a bunch of station relocations (Oriole, Old Cummer). At that point, we are spending billions on a route with very low ridership (for a GO line), which can just be better used investing in the Yonge Subway or the Relief Line to Richmond Hill.

Fourth, it has low ridership and the reason is not because of service but largely because it does not take commuters to where they want to go. The regular commute pattern for someone in York Region heading south is to get off the train somewhere between North York Centre and Queen Station along the Yonge Line. Which means, getting off at Union Station is well out of the way.
 
I don't know why you don't think there won't be express services. We have those now at peak, and I'd think it would only increase.

Which isn't overly a bad thing, if it means GO RER gets built sooner.
Not that it appears to be going any faster.

On a side thing Everyone is looking for a good Relief line for Yonge. Why not do the necessary upgrades to Richmond Hill Line? Then you can reasonably easily have a DRL quicker.
Not sure how the Richmond Hill line get's you a DRL any faster - separate project. Also it's in the post-2041 plan still, I believe.
 
I wish.

He never figured out what RER was, and that Smartrack would be the same thing. So he ran on the city funding GO to do what GO had already promised to do

wrong. GO never promised to build St.Clair, Liberty Village, Gerrard, Lawerence, Unilever, Finch stations.

Show me a single document prior to Smarttrack that showed any interest in this by Metrolinx. This is misinformation spread to discredit Tory by the left.

And don't give me the "oh they would have done it anyways". The real world isn't made up of what if's.

Just like York Region had to pay for their part of the Line 1 Spadina Extension, it is only FAIR that Toronto pays for added stations that they want.
 
Which isn't overly a bad thing, if it means GO RER gets built sooner.

On a side thing Everyone is looking for a good Relief line for Yonge. Why not do the necessary upgrades to Richmond Hill Line? Then you can reasonably easily have a DRL quicker.

The cost was pegged at over a billion dollars to upgrade the Richmond Hill Line, and considering the Richmond Hill line has the lowest ridership of all the GO lines, it was not considered a priority.

For, say $3 billion, you could build a subway extension of the DRL that actually goes where ridership is, not some valley in the middle of nowhere.
 
wrong. GO never promised to build St.Clair, Liberty Village, Gerrard, Lawerence, Unilever, Finch stations.
GO's been talking about some of those for years - and they were talking about Cherry as well. Lawrence doesn't look like it's a go.

Still, we are talking about 5 or 6 stations at most beyond what RER was going to deliver (and probably less, given there are more stations being added to the non-SmartTrack lines at the same time. Tory sold us on subway-frequency SmartTrack service at TTC fares. Instead we have some new stations. A new GO platform on existing track, without a parking structure isn't that expensive.

If you look at the, for example, Metrolinx's cost of building St. Clair station is $27.4 million, assuming there's no property to purchase, and another $2 million for design.

So say 6 stations at $30 million apiece. So at best SmartTrack would cost city only $180 million. Tory however bid against himself, and put the price tag at $8 billion, offering to pay for a share. Most of it was for existing RER promises.

What was the last city offer? $800 million plus the Eglinton West LRT to Renforth - which the province had already previously committed to fund? Another $billion?

So we are in for about $2 billion instead of about $200 million.

Show me a single document prior to Smarttrack that showed any interest in this by Metrolinx. This is misinformation spread to discredit Tory by the left.
There's many, many documents discussing most of those stations over the years.

But hang on, what about the other stations that Metrolinx is recommending on the other 3 RER lines? On the Barrie line there's Spadina, Bloor and 3 north of the city - in addition to the Eglinton and Sheppard stations they'd already committed to - 7 new stations. On Lakeshore East there's new stations at Gerrard and Unilever - which yes are SmartTrack, but have a lot more to do with the DRL than SmartTrack (and were in Metrolinx DRL reports before Tory was mayor). On the Kitchener corridor they'd already announced Mount Dennis and Breslau. I'm not sure we'd have had all 6 of the new Smarttrack stations, but it seems unlikely we wouldn't have had some of them.

And don't give me the "oh they would have done it anyways". The real world isn't made up of what if's.
And yet they are doing Mount Dennis, Sheppard (Downsview Park), Eglinton (Caledonia), Bloor (Lansdowne), and Spadina (Bathurst Yard) - That's 5 new stations we are getting anyways, no related to SmartTrack, even ignoring that one transfer point between the Lakeshore East and DRL was going to give us a station.

Just like York Region had to pay for their part of the Line 1 Spadina Extension, it is only FAIR that Toronto pays for added stations that they want.
Which are worth about $30 million each, before GO builds parking the city doesn't need, and overbuilds the station completely. And why isn't York Region paying part of all the proposed new stations in York Region? (Kirby, Mulock, Innisfil, Gormley, Bloomington, and longer term plans for Concord (407 Transitway).
 
There's many, many documents discussing most of those stations over the years.

Show me. Show me a single document from Metrolinx before Smarttrack was pitched (May 2014) by the mayor that talks about a Liberty Village, Gerrard, St.Clair on Kitchener Line, Unilever, Lawrence station, or Finch Station being proposed.

I believe there was an RFP for a St.Clair station on the Barrie Line but that has since been deferred.

Stop making stuff up, I want to see proof. It doesn't exist. You keep saying many many, but never show them. If they exist, prove it.

I'm not sure we'd have had all 6 of the new Smarttrack stations, but it seems unlikely we wouldn't have had some of them.

Who knows? It doesnt matter. They didn't. Fairy's and unicorns if there is no proof. It's really an irresponsible agenda to keep pushing without proof of it.

Tory sold us on subway-frequency SmartTrack service at TTC fares.

Thats still being worked on and hopefully will be agreed to. Fare integration is not over yet

https://www.insidetoronto.com/news-...single-fare-for-all-transit-trips-in-toronto/

Toronto Council has voted to press for a single-fare for transit within Toronto whether on Metrolinx-operated commuter trains and buses, or on TTC vehicles
 
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and because of its location in the ravine, it cannot ever have a transfer point with Line 2.
Actually, it can be done if there's political will. Some subway stations have a longer escalator than that -- including one subway station in the Washington DC Metro. Also, theoretical gondolas (like Don Valley Gondola) can also be very-short-wait connection points.

But that said, DRL is more important first than 15-min AD2W on Richmond Hill line.

Theoretically, the Richmond Hill line could be a good potential "DRL2 Express" line by ~2050-2060 since it also crosses the theoretical Yonge Extension. Richmond Hill is not proposed to get all-day electrified service until the "Beyond 2041" phase in the Metrolinx 2041 Regional Transportation Plan, which pretty much puts it into a long-future DRL2 timeline.

There's some metro lines worldwide that has dense stop spacing far away, then goes practically express to a downtown core. Richmond Hill could essentially do that.
 

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