Smart Centre developments

[TOareaFan]

^I don't think they have....and perhaps that is why they call it "unique"

That upper level outdoor parking connected by "bridges" to the centre reminds me a lot of the type of parking you see in SoCal (particularly Beverly Hills).

 

[officedweller]

One interesting thing about this 90,000 sqft Walmart is what they describe as "unique upper level retail and service retail opportunities". I'm not sure how a 2nd level would work on top of a Walmart. Is this something SmartCentre has done before at other Walmart Supercenter locations?

Shape Properties has done that (put Wal-Mart in the parkade basement) - at its Abbotsford, BC High Street project.

Here's a link:

http://www.shapeproperties.com/our-places/highstreet-fraser-valley

The redevelopment of Guildford Town Centre in Surrey, BC also placed the façade of a newly built and relocated Wal-Mart store to the back of the ground level of a 2 storey parkade.

2nd floor

Ground floor

 

[Johnny Au]

St. Clair and Weston also has a bi-level big box shopping area, anchored by Target.

 

[James]

^I don't think they have....and perhaps that is why they call it "unique"

That upper level outdoor parking connected by "bridges" to the centre reminds me a lot of the type of parking you see in SoCal (particularly Beverly Hills).

I'm curious as to how this would translate here. The upper level bridge kind of reminds me of an airport too. Hopefully it looks aesthetically pleasing. It could be something niche and cool...or it could just be a dud and outdated quickly.

Since Walmart is SmartCentre's only tenant at this point, I'm wondering if higher end retailers who want to penetrate this part of the city (particularly the neighborhoods just to the west and south) see being associated with a Walmart-anchored mall as a negative aspect or not. I wouldn't be expecting Beverly Hills caliber retailers in the same plaza as Walmart. But then again, perhaps SmartCentre really isn't trying to create an upscale shopping experience despite being very close to some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the city.

 

[James]

Shape Properties has done that (put Wal-Mart in the parkade basement) - at its Abbotsford, BC High Street project.
...

Very interesting! Any idea how this project was received by the public?

 

[innsertnamehere]

nobody drives for a wal-mart, there is one in almost every suburban neighbourhood. This would be for locals.

There is this walmart on Eglinton in Scarborough as well:

The upper level bridge already exists at the Stockyards.

as for whether or not what the best Smart! Centre is, there is no such thing as a good Smart! Centre.

 

[James]

nobody drives for a wal-mart, there is one in almost every suburban neighbourhood. This would be for locals.
...

This is what got me thinking in the first place. When I look at a map of where the current Walmarts are located relative to this new Leslie & York Mills location (click here), I see:

• 2 nearby existing Walmart locations slightly to the east at Warden & Eglinton and Kennedy & Sheppard. Going even a little further east and you have the ones at Scarborough Town Center and Markham Rd & Eglinton. Anyone east of the DVP would have a multitude of Walmart store locations to choose from.
  
• To the west, there really isn't a Walmart until you get to Keele & Lawrence and Jane & Wilson but these 2 seem to be pretty close to each other. I'd say those to the west of Bathurst would have fairly easy access to these 2 locations.
  
• To the north, there's one at Bathurst & Center (Promenade). Those north of the 401 (e.g. in the Willowdale or Newtonbrook neighborhoods all the way east to the 404) would be able to easily access this location.
  
• For the downtown and Toronto core areas, there's the Stockyards, Dufferin Mall and Gerrard Square.

...which leaves the midtown/uptown sector (or whatever you want to call it! There's another thread debating what constitutes midtown and uptown so this won't be debated here. ), spanning roughly from Bathurst to DVP and from St. Clair to the 401. This large area comprises some of the most affluent pockets of the city, from Forest Hill to Leaside to Lawrence Park to the Bridle Path to York Mills. I'm simply not convinced that this Walmart is going to serve the locals in this area.

Is Walmart satisfying a demand from locals in these neighborhoods with a store at Leslie & York Mills? Or perhaps Walmart is relying on the philosophy of "if you build it, they will come"? So long post short, to me this location just seems rather redundant, being so close to existing Walmart stores while at the same time, not really serving a need in the local area...but that's just my 5 cents (2 cents rounded up ).

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm curious as to how this would translate here. The upper level bridge kind of reminds me of an airport too. Hopefully it looks aesthetically pleasing. It could be something niche and cool...or it could just be a dud and outdated quickly.

Since Walmart is SmartCentre's only tenant at this point, I'm wondering if higher end retailers who want to penetrate this part of the city (particularly the neighborhoods just to the west and south) see being associated with a Walmart-anchored mall as a negative aspect or not. I wouldn't be expecting Beverly Hills caliber retailers in the same plaza as Walmart. But then again, perhaps SmartCentre really isn't trying to create an upscale shopping experience despite being very close to some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the city.

need to clarify...was comparing mall design/layout to what I have observed on trips to SoCal/BH.....not, at all, comparing tenancies.

 

[innsertnamehere]

looks to be a pretty good market in this. If you look at that google map you posted there is a pretty clear hole in the middle of Toronto without a wal-mart, this pretty clearly "plugs" that gap. This would mainly serve customers from the east, by the looks of it, but the fact that the closest wal mart is over 5km away bodes well. This will likely catch many people living in condos along Sheppard who likely don't currently shop at Wal-Mart due to there being no ones nearby, as well as the houses to the east.

 

[James]

need to clarify...was comparing mall design/layout to what I have observed on trips to SoCal/BH.....not, at all, comparing tenancies.

Correct, I was referring to the design as well.

With regards to the type of tenants I wouldn't expect the design per se to attract Beverly Hills caliber retailers but rather the proximity to the Bayview-York Mills neighborhood to perhaps try to entice some high end stores into the area.

 

[James]

looks to be a pretty good market in this. If you look at that google map you posted there is a pretty clear hole in the middle of Toronto without a wal-mart, this pretty clearly "plugs" that gap. This would mainly serve customers from the east, by the looks of it, but the fact that the closest wal mart is over 5km away bodes well. This will likely catch many people living in condos along Sheppard who likely don't currently shop at Wal-Mart due to there being no ones nearby, as well as the houses to the east.

This is where I'm not certain. There is a distinct hole in the center of the city without a Walmart but, as per my previous post, I'm not convinced there is a high demand from the local community for one to be situated here.

I think most shoppers living along/around Sheppard would currently go to the Promenade location so with this new one, it'd be a closer option, however I still don't see this location as a must-have for Walmart. And, as mentioned, further to the east, there are already a fair number of Walmart stores available serving a large geographic region, from Markham down to south Scarborough.

Overall I'm surprised that Walmart would be interested in this location and also that a 90,000 sqft Walmart is SmartCentre's anchor store for this area as opposed to, say, a Best Buy, HomeSense, Lowe's or even a movie theatre.

EDIT: On a side note, even though it would've never happened, I think a Mountain Equipment Co-op or Bass Pro Shop would fare extremely well here.

 

[officedweller]

Very interesting! Any idea how this project was received by the public?

Note sure - assuming it has been well received.

WRT the Leslie / York Mills Wal-Mart - there does seem to be a hole in the map you linked.

But the other question to ask is - what other lower / budget retailer exists in the area?
Sometimes affluent areas provide good customers for value retailers - especially if the locals are seniors on fixed incomes.

 

[donoreo]

That York Mills / Leslie / Don Mills development is a horrid idea. The traffic on York Mills through that stretch during rush hour is really, really bad now (before the bridge work over the railway tracks). This will just make it so much worse.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Mountain Equipment Co-op already has a planned location to the north of here on Sheppard. Bass Pro Shop is the type of store that likes to have only a few locations in any market, and they wouldn't locate in a random industrial park like where this site is. Large retail areas only, Like Vaughan Mills or square one, that sort of thing.

 

[James]

That York Mills / Leslie / Don Mills development is a horrid idea. The traffic on York Mills through that stretch during rush hour is really, really bad now (before the bridge work over the railway tracks). This will just make it so much worse.

Agreed, the traffic congestion along York Mills is certainly going to increase. Is that bridge work over the railway tracks also going to include any kind of road work to accommodate the anticipated increased traffic? I also wonder if SmartCentres has any plans to somehow improve ingress and egress from Lesmill Road.