Slower subway service?

[smallspy]

So if the signal is glitching out at red and the problem is not known, the operator can't do anything about it and keep the train in the tunnel?

If a signal has failed and reverted to red, the operator is to call control. Depending on the situation, they may get "talked" past the signal.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Electrify]

I guess you like to have trains jumping the rails where rail replacement is taking place as well increasing the overheated rails by having trains going full throttle to the point it cause the rails to split???? How Hot is it theses Days?????

What you want is to shut down the systems for 10,000's riders or kill a few people so you can save a few minutes getting home.......Geeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!................. This is such a "ME/I" thing and it shows what is wrong with today society.

I'm not talking about having trains going around the corner between Union and King at 80km/h. I'm talking about trains operating at a smooth and reasonable speed between stations.

On my trip back on Saturday night, the train I was on announced it was going out of service at Lawrence. After a few minutes, the replacement train arrived. Midway between Lawrence and York Mills, the train stopped for no apparent reason (I know it was half way because I saw a tunnel sign for Teddington Park Ave). This is just an example of the unexplained slow downs and stops encountered. And since there was at least a few minutes between my train and the one which went out of service, why did it stop mid-tunnel? Overall, the ride didn't feel any more "rapid" than my connecting Viva.

I just dont understand how people think that each station should be 1 minute apart. SO on the spadina line the Eglinton to Glendarin should take about 1 minute and on the yonge line from Eglinton to Lawrence should also take 1 minute. That yonge line train must be doing double the speed then since its twice as far apart. Is that realistic? These trains dont accelerate like the ferrari in your garage.

While I don't disagree, but since the trains use electricity rather than internal combustion, they should accelerate pretty damn quickly.

 

[Justin10000]

Drum makes a good point, and highlights the unrealistic expectation many transit enthusiasts have with grade-separated transit. Just because it's grade-separated doesn't mean you're always going to have a delay-free trip, and it's not always going to be the fastest trip. The infrastructure is not immune to wear and tear, and it has to be replaced. There really is no point in complaining about it.

 

[Electrify]

Drum makes a good point, and highlights the unrealistic expectation many transit enthusiasts have with grade-separated transit. Just because it's grade-separated doesn't mean you're always going to have a delay-free trip, and it's not always going to be the fastest trip. The infrastructure is not immune to wear and tear, and it has to be replaced. There really is no point in complaining about it.

It is unrealistic to expect a train not to come to a complete stop mid-tunnel during off-peak periods when there should be minimal congestion on the line?

Montreal seems to have no problems running their trains rapidly between stations with no unexpected slow downs. While I didn't take their subway during the heart of rush hour, I did take it midday and early evenings. The TTC is so incompetent they can't even achieve this on a Saturday night!

 

[taal]

No here's the point ...

The subways were fine about 6months+ ago! Clearly this is all due to construction ... again particularly between Sheppard and Eglinton (but also south a little as well).
I used to ride the subway everyday, and it was fine late last year, this all started late winter or so. It seems to be worst just off peek as well i.e. 6/6:30pm ish

 

[drum118]

I'm not talking about having trains going around the corner between Union and King at 80km/h. I'm talking about trains operating at a smooth and reasonable speed between stations.

On my trip back on Saturday night, the train I was on announced it was going out of service at Lawrence. After a few minutes, the replacement train arrived. Midway between Lawrence and York Mills, the train stopped for no apparent reason (I know it was half way because I saw a tunnel sign for Teddington Park Ave). This is just an example of the unexplained slow downs and stops encountered. And since there was at least a few minutes between my train and the one which went out of service, why did it stop mid-tunnel? Overall, the ride didn't feel any more "rapid" than my connecting Viva.



While I don't disagree, but since the trains use electricity rather than internal combustion, they should accelerate pretty damn quickly.

I repeat my statement again and I am not talking at Union, but the whole system.

Unless you are in the rail fan seat, you have no idea what the driver is seeing sitting back in the train.

These past months has seen various sections of track work taking place or being inspected at all hours of the day. There has been signal issues as well.

So if you don't like the slow order and want speed, you have 3 choices. One accept what is taking place; 2 use a cab; 3 buy a car.(sic)

Don't you think TTC is running train slower these day because of the heat like all railways in NA or do you think its fine to run flat out and hope a rail, rail splice or anchor doesn't give away going back to my posting??

The Yonge line is old and out data and cannot be rebuild a a snap of the finger. There is a cost in doing this also.

I am being bunt, as your way will kill or injury people as well shutting down the line for days.

I have been toss off trains for various reason up to 3 times over a 25 minute trip between Yonge and Islington. That not fun if you cannot get on a full train or 2 behind the one that went out of service.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

My biggest beef is when a delay occurs due to an ill passenger. Those can slow service to a crawl, with no means to inform your boss or colleagues that you will be late, or by how long. The practice of holding trains in the middle of tunnels should be minimized. I have been stuck on the Yonge line just north of Lawrence several times now where I can see the station about 100m and it is empty, yet the train is holding in the tunnel. I was very late for a meeting since it took over 45mins to get from Finch to Bloor. That is unacceptable service during rush hour. Whatever the medical emergency is, get the person off the train immediately and resume service ASAP. Thousands of people are inconvenienced almost daily due to a single incident that causes severe delays on the entire line. The TTC needs to better train their operators and managers on how to handle these situations. Travel times and service levels must be maintained and delays should be recovered from quickly.

Aren't you selfish. Just how do you know whats wrong with a passenger? A man/women could be back there having a heart attack and dieing and your worried about being late for work!? There's a reason why we have passenger assist alarms in train/subways and that's because response time makes a BIG difference. What makes you think they don't try to get a person off the train ASAP? Of course they do! But only when its safe to do so. Jezz, get over yourself, your not that important. Same goes for anyone else who thinks that a couple of minutes is more important than a person's well being (this is in regards to any delay resulting from a medical emergency).

Unless you are in the rail fan seat, you have no idea what the driver is seeing sitting back in the train.

These past months has seen various sections of track work taking place or being inspected at all hours of the day. There has been signal issues as well.

So if you don't like the slow order and want speed, you have 3 choices. One accept what is taking place; 2 use a cab; 3 buy a car.(sic)

Don't you think TTC is running train slower these day because of the heat like all railways in NA or do you think its fine to run flat out and hope a rail, rail splice or anchor doesn't give away going back to my posting??

The Yonge line is old and out data and cannot be rebuild a a snap of the finger. There is a cost in doing this also.

I am being bunt, as your way will kill or injury people as well shutting down the line for days.

Well said.
People don't seem to know anything about traveling on rails. Any rail line is susceptible to sun kinks - the thermal expansion of the steel rails under extreme heat which can cause the rails to buckle. For heavy rail there are slow orders on some section which automatically come into effect once a certain temperature is reached, the TTC would be no different.
You don't want the trains/subays to slow down? Well then, aren't we glad your not running our systems. "How many people would you like to kill today?" is entirely accurate then.

 

[lead82]

This has nothing to do about being selfish. Medical emergencies do not occur that often, and how many of them are heart attacks? They are rare indeed. I have no problem when it is a true medical emergency. However, having daily incidents and claiming them as medical emergencies make me VERY suspicious. I have seen myself people who pulled the alarm because someone fainted in the AM rush because of low sugar due to not eating breakfast. The bigger issue is the TTCs incompetence in running the 2 subway lines that it has. If medical emergencies do occur often the where is the plan in place to mitigate them? Why are there not emergency personnel at key stations that can assist? Instead of having useless route supervisors that stand around and not do anything, we should instead have some EMS crews on hand.

This is a big and congested city. Somehow other cities in the world manage to run their subways such that they do not have daily delays. If asking the TTC to run on time makes me selffish then so be it.

 

[BMO]

This has nothing to do about being selfish. Medical emergencies do not occur that often, and how many of them are heart attacks? They are rare indeed. I have no problem when it is a true medical emergency. However, having daily incidents and claiming them as medical emergencies make me VERY suspicious. I have seen myself people who pulled the alarm because someone fainted in the AM rush because of low sugar due to not eating breakfast. The bigger issue is the TTCs incompetence in running the 2 subway lines that it has. If medical emergencies do occur often the where is the plan in place to mitigate them? Why are there not emergency personnel at key stations that can assist? Instead of having useless route supervisors that stand around and not do anything, we should instead have some EMS crews on hand.

This is a big and congested city. Somehow other cities in the world manage to run their subways such that they do not have daily delays. If asking the TTC to run on time makes me selffish then so be it.

London has delays almost every single day. I've not once been on the tube without a delay in my various trips there.

 

[smallspy]

This has nothing to do about being selfish. Medical emergencies do not occur that often, and how many of them are heart attacks? They are rare indeed. I have no problem when it is a true medical emergency. However, having daily incidents and claiming them as medical emergencies make me VERY suspicious. I have seen myself people who pulled the alarm because someone fainted in the AM rush because of low sugar due to not eating breakfast.

And diabetes or insulin shock isn't a major health issue? What about heart palpitations? Sprained ankle?

Unless you are the one suffering the health issue, you are in no place to say that someone should or shouldn't press the emergency alarm. Most people know their own bodies better than you do. Don't like it? Drive yourself.

The bigger issue is the TTCs incompetence in running the 2 subway lines that it has. If medical emergencies do occur often the where is the plan in place to mitigate them? Why are there not emergency personnel at key stations that can assist? Instead of having useless route supervisors that stand around and not do anything, we should instead have some EMS crews on hand.

EMS crews are on hand at a couple of key stations during rush hours. Because of them medical delays have gone down substantially over the past couple of years.

This is a big and congested city. Somehow other cities in the world manage to run their subways such that they do not have daily delays. If asking the TTC to run on time makes me selffish then so be it.

Really? Have you been to those other cities?

Even Vancouver, with its automated trains, manages to suffer delays every day. How do they manage to do it?

The catch is to try and prevent the major ones, or at least minimize the damage they cause.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Palma]

I just dont understand how people think that each station should be 1 minute apart. SO on the spadina line the Eglinton to Glendarin should take about 1 minute and on the yonge line from Eglinton to Lawrence should also take 1 minute. That yonge line train must be doing double the speed then since its twice as far apart. Is that realistic? These trains dont accelerate like the ferrari in your garage.

When I say 1 minute I guess I should have emphasized on average. Did not realize people would take it so literal as being 1 minute. I have never timed any of the stops. When I need to get somewhere and am trying to figure out how long it will take me I see how, many stops and give myself a ballpoint figure of how long it will take me by subway based on the stops and add a few extra minutes due to people getting on and off (and some stops are busier than others). And this works for me. When I use to go from Wilson to St George it always use to take 13 min. There are 8 stops but of course the run from Eglinton to St Clair is longer and perhaps takes 2 min as does St Clair to Dupont. That is now 10 min. Of course you need to account for people exiting and coming on board those trains at each station, which is where the extra 3 min come from. Again, unscientific counting. But 13 min is how long it use to take from Wilson to St. George when I use to take that route for 14 years. Assuming no delays with the train just sitting idle. From St., George to St Andrew which is 5 stops, closer together but with more people exiting of course, use to always take 5 min
When I started getting on at the Jane subway stop and had to go to St. George to get to work I needed to go 11 stops. It would take me 15 min. unless.
I know that on the Yonge line the stops at least north of Bloor are further apart so it takes longer to go from 1 stop to another which means more than the 1 min mythical figure I gave out. When I needed to go from Lawrence to Bloor (6 stops) it would take 10 min.
But I stand by what I said there is a world of difference in how long it takes the subway to travel 3 stops from Lawrence to Downsview. Even just to go from Yorkdale to Wilson. I know and can feel when the train is going slow (inch by inch) compared to when it is traveling as it should. That is what I was trying to get across. And as I said it must be because the train needs to go outside and anything can get on the tracks.

 

[reaperexpress]

But I stand by what I said there is a world of difference in how long it takes the subway to travel 3 stops from Lawrence to Downsview. Even just to go from Yorkdale to Wilson. I know and can feel when the train is going slow (inch by inch) compared to when it is traveling as it should. That is what I was trying to get across. And as I said it must be because the train needs to go outside and anything can get on the tracks.

Recently the north Spadina line has been experiencing severe delays, mainly northbound, for a variety of reasons, including construction around Wilson yard and concrete resealing on the bridges over the 401 (read: slow order). Add that to the routine delays from trains entering and exiting Wilson Yard and turnaround delays at Downsview and you can get trains backed up all the way to Lawrence West. When I go to my car at Wilson I can often see a line of northbound trains stopped at the end of their signal blocks, including just outside of Wilson station (very annoying for passengers).

 

[drum118]

Recently the north Spadina line has been experiencing severe delays, mainly northbound, for a variety of reasons, including construction around Wilson yard and concrete resealing on the bridges over the 401 (read: slow order). Add that to the routine delays from trains entering and exiting Wilson Yard and turnaround delays at Downsview and you can get trains backed up all the way to Lawrence West. When I go to my car at Wilson I can often see a line of northbound trains stopped at the end of their signal blocks, including just outside of Wilson station (very annoying for passengers).

I have an idea, lets shut down the line 100% where TTC has to do the repairs or replacements even if its mean days, weeks, or months to do. This way TTC will complete the work faster and people will bitch less.

Riders will have 2 choices of bypassing the section or sections: One you drive your car to work or a parking lot next to it: two, you will have to find another route or routes to used to get to work and you will have to add extra time for your trip.

At the end of the day, those who have no care and want speed to save a few minutes of wait time, will have it after TTC does their thing.

Once again, the needs of the few out weight the needs of the many will get their way again.

 

[Justin10000]

Once again, the needs of the few out weight the needs of the many will get their way again.

That is essentially who advocates of speed represent. The few.

 

[lead82]

And diabetes or insulin shock isn't a major health issue? What about heart palpitations? Sprained ankle?

Unless you are the one suffering the health issue, you are in no place to say that someone should or shouldn't press the emergency alarm. Most people know their own bodies better than you do. Don't like it? Drive yourself.

Those are legitimate health issues. My beef is not about people feeling ill but rather how the TTC handles the situation. More often than not I am starting to drive more because the TTC has become very unreliable. For someone who has to attend client meetings during the day it is very frustrating to experience long delays that make a 20min commute into a 45 to 90 minute commute. I question what has changed in the last 2 years that has made the system so much more unstable. It was not like this in 2008-9. Yes there were some delays, but never this bad and this often.

EMS crews are on hand at a couple of key stations during rush hours. Because of them medical delays have gone down substantially over the past couple of years.

Great, I am very glad to hear it. Maybe we need more of them or one on every station on the busy and crowded Yonge line.

Really? Have you been to those other cities?

Even Vancouver, with its automated trains, manages to suffer delays every day. How do they manage to do it?

The catch is to try and prevent the major ones, or at least minimize the damage they cause.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Yes I have been to many cities and lived in a few of them including Montreal (lived), New York (lived), London, Paris, Barcelona, Stockholm(lived), Rome, Vienna, Berlin (lived). Of those cities I would say Stockholm has one of the best metro systems for a city of its size. It runs pretty well. Yes there are delays, but somehow they are able to deal with them fairly quickly, including medical emergencies.

Maybe the issue with Toronto is that we only have so many subway lines and they are severely congested. Other cities that I have visited or lived in have alternatives, so if one line is delayed you have a choice to transfer to another line to get to where you need to go. The other lines are able to absorb the increased load as they are not fully congested. In Toronto, the subways, buses, trams are all congested. One delay and the whole system is unable to cope since there isn't much slack or extra capacity to go around. This is especially a problem with Yonge as it is a very heavy used route to get out of the city for those of us who live north, or north east.