Sherway (Greenfield South) Power Plant

[nfitz]

Perhaps with these costs so much higher than before, the Liberals can do the right thing, that both the Tories and NDP clearly want, and finish the plants, and put them in operation.

 

[TOareaFan]

Perhaps with these costs so much higher than before, the Liberals can do the right thing, that both the Tories and NDP clearly want, and finish the plants, and put them in operation.

I think, honestly, all that anyone wants is for them to just come clean and tell the province what the real cost is....and, likely just as important in the context of political transparency, when they knew the cost.

We all know (or should) that the cancellations were politically motivated. If there is a memo out there that says..."Mr. Mc G...if you cancel these two plants and the cost to satisfy the constituents of these areas is $40 million..." that is one thing. If, however, the best advise to them at the time was that the cost would be approaching $1B and that they still went ahead and did it....and then engaged in this "cover up" by firstly not releasing anything then releasing 50k+ documents...that is another thing (in my view).

At some point politics and governing is about serving/pleasing the people. So, with two other sites available that seemed relatively welcoming, if the job could get done and the cost was minimal...that would seem prudent governing.....if the costs ballooned after the fact but they acted on best advice...I could live with that (would be questioning the guy who gave the low cost estimate, sure, but it is not a political matter).

If, though, they knew the cost was of this magnitude and just ignored/hid it for their own political gain....that is a different matter.

 

[nfitz]

I think, honestly, all that anyone wants is for them to just come clean and tell the province what the real cost is....and, likely just as important in the context of political transparency, when they knew the cost.

Come clean? It's quite clear they cancelled it without anyone thinking to figure out how much it was going to cost. What's to come clean about? They can't even figure out all the costs now, months later.

We all know (or should) that the cancellations were politically motivated.

The Premier clearly stated on television that they were politically motivated. Not sure the point here ...

Now that the cost of cancelling them is so clear ... I'm sure that every party would agree that the best thing to do is just to build them anyway.

 

[BurlOak]

The Premier clearly stated on television that they were politically motivated. Not sure the point here ...

At the time, the gov't said the Oakville plant was cancelled because it was not needed. (http://www.insidehalton.com/mobile/news/article/1402935--goodbye-kevin-and-charles)

Now that the cost of cancelling them is so clear ... I'm sure that every party would agree that the best thing to do is just to build them anyway.

You want them re-built even though the components have long since been relocated?

It is quite common for an opposition party to cancel (or at least promise to cancel) a project of the incumbent government - party since they are not privy to the exact cost implications. But it rarely occurs that the same government cancels their own plans - first because it makes them look like incompetant planners and second they have no excuse for not knowing the costs because they negotiated the contracts.

 

[nfitz]

At the time, the gov't said the Oakville plant was cancelled because it was not needed. (http://www.insidehalton.com/mobile/news/article/1402935--goodbye-kevin-and-charles)

That was last year. The premier couldn't have been more clear that that the reason the plants were cancelled was because it was a strategic decision in the election.

I'm not sure what else there is to say ...

You want them re-built even though the components have long since been relocated?

Absolutely ... there's still the infrastructure itself. The turbines can be moved back. Clearly everyone is upset it was cancelled, and it was a dumb decision to do so.

 

[BurlOak]

That was last year. The premier couldn't have been more clear that that the reason the plants were cancelled was because it was a strategic decision in the election.

I'm not sure what else there is to say ...

Absolutely ... there's still the infrastructure itself. The turbines can be moved back. Clearly everyone is upset it was cancelled, and it was a dumb decision to do so.

I wasn't sure which thread this belongs in - either this or http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/17162-Why-to-support-the-Liberal-Party/page12

It seems incredible that this Liberal scandal keeps growing in scope. http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...inate_deletion_of_emails_by_top_liberals.html

When did we decide to not care about the Province any more.

 

[TOareaFan]

The interesting thing here is that the privacy commissioner notes that there have been offenses under an act....so you would expect that the people responsible for these offenses (whom she names) would be subject to some sort of prosecution. Unfortunately a read (albeit a quick one) of the act does not define any penalties for contravening the act. Seems a bit strange and pointless.

 

[TOareaFan]

So, yesterday, more documents/emails were released.

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/new...e-election-fallout-of-cancelling-power-plant/

The most disturbing (to me) revelation in this was our current Minister of Finance's view on the matter.

On the one hand Sousa was "not of the mind the plant will, in fact, have any significant impact on the community from a safety or environmental standpoint, " but was "concerned about the political fallout over the plant's construction."

So, in the end, what was good for the party trumped what he felt was for the overall good.

 

[RC8]

Since the NDP and conservatives had promised to scrap the plant, what good would it have done the Liberals to go ahead with it?

Don't lower the standards and complain when others adapt to them.

 

[TOareaFan]

Since the NDP and conservatives had promised to scrap the plant, what good would it have done the Liberals to go ahead with it?

If that was/is their position...fine....they can say that and defend it and show us that discussion. Instead what they did was cancel something that they believed was right (the NDP and the Tories had always said they believed it was wrong) and then understated the cost of their reversal and have been in cover up mode since.

I get that the end result might have been the same (although it is highly possible that once in office either of the other parties might have said..."I know we said we would stop these but those other guys have spent so much of your money on these and the penalties are so high that it would be wrong to cancel these plants").......but by their actions and statements since the cancellations the government of the day is telling us quite clearly that they know they did something against the public good for purely political expediency.....they are not the first (and likely won't be the last) political party to do this but it does not mean we the electorate should sit back and say "ah well, it is what it is".

Don't lower the standards and complain when others adapt to them.

Not sure if that is directed at me or what it means really.

 

[RC8]

It's directed at the NDP and the Conservatives who vowed, promised, and swore to cancel the plant if they got elected.

If your campaign is populist nonsense and polls are giving you the lead, you can't be upset when your opponent adopts your nonsensical populist policy to avoid an electoral defeat... and wins! While the liberals pulled the trigger, the power plant would have been built if conservatives and the NDP hadn't built a campaign based on bullshit scaremongering.

The Ontario Liberals are far from perfect, but they are usually the last of the 3 parties to embrace populist rhetoric when faced with any given situation. I for one really appreciate that. Hudak and Horwath jump straight to third-world-like populistic 'we'll make x cheaper!' whenever they have the spotlight.

 

[TOareaFan]

So, on the same day that the Globe reports that Oakville could have died at $0 cost to the taxpayer...the auditor general confirms that the figure is much higher than anyone has written before:

It will ultimately cost Ontario taxpayers $1.1 billion to scrap two gas plants in Oakville and Mississauga so the Liberals could save five seats in the 2011 election.

That’s the bottom line from auditor general Bonnie Lysyk in a long-awaited report Tuesday on the price tag for scuttling the Oakville generating station three years ago.

Lysyk concluded the tab for cancelling Oakville and relocating the plant to Napanee could skyrocket to $815 million — that’s much higher than the $310 million the Ontario Power Authority had estimated and exponentially more than the $40 million the Grits initially claimed.