scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Since government money is government money, it's unlikely that the government would allow the TTC to wither and perish right after announcing a multi-billion dollar expansion plan.
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Sheppard Subway to be Mothballed?
- Thread starter Jarrek
- Start date
Since government money is government money, it's unlikely that the government would allow the TTC to wither and perish right after announcing a multi-billion dollar expansion plan.
Chuck
Senior Member
Is anyone else wondering why the TTC automatically equates cost savings with cutbacks in service and fare increases? Why is the TTC not considering layoffs at head office? Salary caps? Performance based pay increases?
Here's another idea. Start contracting out all janitorial, landscaping, construction, and property maintenance jobs to companies that specialize in those areas. YRT has had great success entering into a PPP. At most, the TTC itself should be directly responsible for nothing other than drivers, vehicle maintenance, and service planning. While its individual routes may be fairly profitable, the rest of the TTC is inefficient as ever. Shrinking its size is a great way to address budgetary issues.
Here's another idea. Start contracting out all janitorial, landscaping, construction, and property maintenance jobs to companies that specialize in those areas. YRT has had great success entering into a PPP. At most, the TTC itself should be directly responsible for nothing other than drivers, vehicle maintenance, and service planning. While its individual routes may be fairly profitable, the rest of the TTC is inefficient as ever. Shrinking its size is a great way to address budgetary issues.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
I wouldn't mind if this city went into serious debt financing the expansion and maintenance of its transit system. After all, these are infrastructure assets that might lead to innumerable economic benefits down the road. No matter what happens, we are the centre of a city region of 7.5 million people (bigger than that real financial sinkhole, Quebec) with a $300 billion economy. We're also growing by a burgeoning 100,000 people every year. We can either leave future generations with a huge debt or a horribly undesirable city. If I had a choice, I would pick the former. Let's borrow and spend like drunken sailors, or at least like Berlin.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Whether we do it or the feds/province do/es, the taxes come out of the same pockets...it doesn't matter who does it as long as it gets done.
simply Dan
Active Member
Germany is very rich and can afford Berlin. Well, Frankfurt, Hamburg and Munich can pay for Berlin and the East.
Canada is also very wealthy, and can afford Quebec. ...or, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver can afford Quebec. How embarrassing for Quebec!
ShonTron
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Arrgh!
I'm trying to check all possible media sources - Star, 680, Steve Munro, and no one yet is saying what the outcome is.
So far, I got a form reply from Giambrone (saying nothing really) and more personal replies from my councillor - I have been trying to push and prod her a bit after she voted to defer the taxes.
My MPP is going to get a nice e-can of whoop ass when I set my teeth into him.
Edit: Steve Munro just reported on the decisions made.
"The TTC voted today to defer service improvements planned for September including the opening of Mt. Dennis bus garage, to get a pile of additional information, and to launch a series of community meetings to discuss service proposals."
I'm trying to check all possible media sources - Star, 680, Steve Munro, and no one yet is saying what the outcome is.
So far, I got a form reply from Giambrone (saying nothing really) and more personal replies from my councillor - I have been trying to push and prod her a bit after she voted to defer the taxes.
My MPP is going to get a nice e-can of whoop ass when I set my teeth into him.
Edit: Steve Munro just reported on the decisions made.
"The TTC voted today to defer service improvements planned for September including the opening of Mt. Dennis bus garage, to get a pile of additional information, and to launch a series of community meetings to discuss service proposals."
doady
Senior Member
Adam Giabrone is just anti-subway. He's just looking for any excuse to shut down the Sheppard subway to promote LRT and Transit City.
The Sheppard subway loses $10 million per year, which is around the same as the Spadina streetcar, the model for Transit City. Both the Spadina streetcar and the Sheppard subway are around the same length and ridership as well. Maybe the Spadina streetcar should also be cancelled?
The Sheppard subway loses $10 million per year, which is around the same as the Spadina streetcar, the model for Transit City. Both the Spadina streetcar and the Sheppard subway are around the same length and ridership as well. Maybe the Spadina streetcar should also be cancelled?
ShonTron
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Adam Giambrone is not anti-subway. That said, this whole issue is largely thanks to Miller's very bad performance recently - he has not communicated the need for the new taxes properly, and then blames council for choosing to defer the decision to implement them. He immediately targets areas such as the TTC, and says that the councillors knew this was the result.
He should have been up front, pushing this. I think a few of the left-leaning "mushy" types - Ashton, Augimeri, DeBaeremaeker, Perruzza, to name a few would have gone the other way if the issues were more clear.
He should have been up front, pushing this. I think a few of the left-leaning "mushy" types - Ashton, Augimeri, DeBaeremaeker, Perruzza, to name a few would have gone the other way if the issues were more clear.
AnarchoSocialist
Active Member
Here here! Thanks for your money Toronto! Not only are you subsidizing my cheap rent while you contemplate closing your subway, but you keep electing politicians who stop Quebec from seperating and thus getting rid of one 'have not' province and maybe saving enough money to keep your transit services going. And you don't even bother trying to take any of the hot french canadian girls to try to make up for some of your loses.
Yes. How embarassing for Quebec. How embarassing for all of Canada. How I can only hope a constitutional clusterfuck lead by Quebecois nationalist and Toronto provincialists comes very, very soon to shake some sense into people, or at the very least make things a little more interesting.
How I long for the days when politicians took three month summer vacations and at least gave Canadians some time where we didn't have to deal with all their bullshit. Where are the corrupt and inept Chretien Liberals when you really need them.
theman23
Active Member
TTC operators are paid pretty much the same as operators in Calgary or Vancouver, and there is still a shortage of bus drivers that we have to worry about. Same goes with Toronto police. You have to be more specific than just blame the unions. Exactly what jobs are you talking about that are over paid?
Chuck
Senior Member
It's not that they're overpaid, however the following workers, who have nothing to do with the transit system itself, are all on the TTC's massively bloated payroll: janitors, cleaning staff, landscapers, marketing, advertising, zillions of construction workers, electricians, special constables...you name it, the TTC hires it.
Contract all this work out for a lower price, and let the TTC focus on what it (arguably) does best: operating transit vehicles. If unions actually are a problem, it's better to employ 2000 unionized workers than 20,000.
MisterF
Senior Member
How do you know that those positions are overpaid? How do you know how they compare to the private sector? You seem to be assuming that contracting out their jobs to for-profit companies would actually reduce costs but you have nothing to back that up.
The efficiency of the TTC isn't the problem here.
The efficiency of the TTC isn't the problem here.
Blovertis
Active Member
Miller richly deserved this defeat. He's known for years the city was in dire financial straits, but did you hear him campaigning for these taxes in November? That election was only eight months ago.
Remember, he faced extremely weak opposition in Jane Pitfield and Stephen LeDrew. He could have gone to the people with some specific plans to reinvest in the city and some straight talk about the sacrifices that would be required -- and he still would have won, maybe not with a huge majority but with a healthy majority.
But he is so risk averse that he couldn't bring himself to spend the "political capital" he had amassed at a time when it would have done the city real good.
Remember, he faced extremely weak opposition in Jane Pitfield and Stephen LeDrew. He could have gone to the people with some specific plans to reinvest in the city and some straight talk about the sacrifices that would be required -- and he still would have won, maybe not with a huge majority but with a healthy majority.
But he is so risk averse that he couldn't bring himself to spend the "political capital" he had amassed at a time when it would have done the city real good.
syn
Senior Member
Wouldn't now be the perfect time for the TTC to re-introduce zone fares? Wouldn't this net them a lot more money?
doady
Senior Member
Maybe the TTC should stop giving away transfers too.