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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

nfitz said:
That seem to forget how dismal the ridership predictions either for the west extension, or the east extension beyond Victoria Park.
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Strange when bus routes such as Bathurst and those east of Don Mills mostly likely outperform 11 Bayview and 51 Leslie in terms of ridership.
Were the predictions based upon separate eastern and western extensions scenerios? Was there one done for the full built (Sheppard West to McCowan)?
 
Aplus23 said:
Outside of the Ontario line and I guess the SSE, this should be main priority. I don't know how the Yonge North got extended before Sheppard, but I guess the numbers justify it. From a network perspective, this makes too much sense
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Politics and lobbying. The Yonge University extensions should have only gone to Steeles first. I agree and let's get all of this done now.
 
Aplus23 said:
Outside of the Ontario line and I guess the SSE, this should be main priority. I don't know how the Yonge North got extended before Sheppard, but I guess the numbers justify it. From a network perspective, this makes too much sense
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A big part of the reasoning for Yonge North extension has always been that tracks at Finch are not well designed for end-of-line operations but are instead setup on assumption the line will eventually go further north, but in the meantime the TTC is stuck with a bad arrangement which has long been a constraint for service levels and would itself be a large cost to fix with the marginal cost to simultaneously extend it to Steeles being relatively low as an addition, though depending on the grandeur of the new Steeles station itself.

Beyond that is the bus traffic between Steeles and Finch which even pre-pandemic reached an insane level at rush hours to become a choke point of its own. I don't know if that's changed now post-pandemic, but if it has it will presumably go back to being that way again in a few years.

Of course, none of the above is evidence the extension needs to go beyond Steeles, but if you are already building it to there...
 
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Jonny5 said:
A big part of the reasoning for Yonge North extension has always been that tracks at Finch are not well designed for end-of-line operations but are instead setup on assumption the line will eventually go further north, but in the meantime the TTC is stuck with a bad arrangement which has long been a constraint for service levels and would itself be a large cost to fix with the marginal cost to simultaneously extend it to Steeles being relatively low as an addition, though depending on the grandeur of the new Steeles station itself.

Beyond that is the bus traffic between Steeles and Finch which even pre-pandemic reached an insane level at rush hours to become a choke point of its own. I don't know if that's changed now post-pandemic, but if it has it will presumably go back to being that way again in a few years.

Of course, none of the above is evidence the extension needs to go beyond Steeles, but if you are already building it to there...
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It's bizarro world really... Toronto has an LRT fetish while York Region has a subway obsession. Should have been in reverse, subway to Steeles and a York Region LRT on Yonge Street.

anb said:
If Sheppard goes ahead with the east extension, wouldn’t it also make sense to extend the Ontario Line further north to Don Mills Station? For connectivity and further relief to Line 1 (mostly Sheppard-Yonge) this is for sure logical.
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(OL) Science Centre station will be designed to allow for an elevated northern extension to meet line 4 at Don Mills in a future stage
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Politics and lobbying. The Yonge University extensions should have only gone to Steeles first. I agree and let's get all of this done now.
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You know, as much as York Region was undeserving of a subway extension, they paid their part. And after going up there to see the going ons it seems like they also have political will to change the built form around these new transit investments which should bode well for future ridership.

However I do think there's a point where the province should draw a line in the sand.

denfromoakvillemilton said:
Let's start an old debate: I don't agree with the McCowan station and am not convinced it's needed.
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Haha, you can debate all you want Dan from OAKVILLE. It will save North East Scarborough residents a full hour during rush hour each day, and will divert thousands of riders from nearby routes that otherwise would have been more time effective. Based on personal experience, but you can easily do the math yourself. Riders from Markham and Steeles who would usually take the 56 to Finch would fall into such a category, as well as someone from Morningside and Sheppard who otherwise would have taken the 116 Morningside to Kennedy Station. It is just one station, but it will improve transit for a very very wide area of the city. The whole area is gridlocked around the 401 during rush.
 
sixrings said:
No one’s putting shovels in a ground to extend a subway one station. It’s the same reason if bloor west goes to cloverdale it will also go to Sherway.
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North York Centre was a one stop extension.

Jaye101 said:
You know, as much as York Region was undeserving of a subway extension, they paid their part. And after going up there to see the going ons it seems like they also have political will to change the built form around these new transit investments which should bode well for future ridership.

However I do think there's a point where the province should draw a line in the sand.



Haha, you can debate all you want Dan from OAKVILLE. It will save North East Scarborough residents a full hour during rush hour each day, and will divert thousands of riders from nearby routes that otherwise would have been more time effective. Based on personal experience, but you can easily do the math yourself. Riders from Markham and Steeles who would usually take the 56 to Finch would fall into such a category, as well as someone from Morningside and Sheppard who otherwise would have taken the 116 Morningside to Kennedy Station. It is just one station, but it will improve transit for a very very wide area of the city. The whole area is gridlocked around the 401 during rush.
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Fair enough. With York Region, local transit needs to improve by a factor of 10 at least. They're system is not even as good as Oakville's (lol).

And fair enough haha, I'm just in favor of STC :)
 
Cobra said:
It's bizarro world really... Toronto has an LRT fetish while York Region has a subway obsession. Should have been in reverse, subway to Steeles and a York Region LRT on Yonge Street.


(OL) Science Centre station will be designed to allow for an elevated northern extension to meet line 4 at Don Mills in a future stage
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OL East is probably going all the way to Finch to meet Seneca College and a possible Finch LRT extension in the future, so it makes sense.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
North York Centre was a one stop extension.


Fair enough. With York Region, local transit needs to improve by a factor of 10 at least. They're system is not even as good as Oakville's (lol).

And fair enough haha, I'm just in favor of STC :)
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North York Centre was an infill station, an infill station that was planned for a long time, and tunnels were built with it in mind. The actual extension to Finch was a multi phase project that extended the line from Eglinton (first to York Mills, then to Finch).

The only 1 stop extensions were A) Wilson to Sheppard West (this was built so that the subway could meet up with the future Sheppard Line), and B) Kennedy and Kipling, which were made to provide a connection to future suburban LRTs, not to mention both of those extensions were above ground/cut and cover under a former rail ROW, so they were cheap to make. Extending the line to just Steeles would likely involve buying a TBM just to use it for 1 stop (granted it shouldn't have been but oh well).
 
anb said:
If Sheppard goes ahead with the east extension, wouldn’t it also make sense to extend the Ontario Line further north to Don Mills Station? For connectivity and further relief to Line 1 (mostly Sheppard-Yonge) this is for sure logical.
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There is one small side effect though. Sending Ontario line to Sheppard will divert traffic away from Sheppard Line which is already not as busy as it should be. Ontario line would be a faster way to reach Downtown than Sheppard Line --> Yonge Line.
denfromoakvillemilton said:
North York Centre was a one stop extension.
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Not really an extension. More like an expansion 😀
 
Deadpool X said:
There is one small side effect though. Sending Ontario line to Sheppard will divert traffic away from Sheppard Line which is already not as busy as it should be. Ontario line would be a faster way to reach Downtown than Sheppard Line --> Yonge Line.

Not really an extension. More like an expansion 😀
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I think by the time the OL reaches Sheppard, enough new transit will exist that it will have adequate ridership regardless. It will depend on where you are going whether or not Sheppard is still useful for specific trips.
 
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