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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

denfromoakvillemilton said:
I think people don't wanna transfer at McCowan to go to STC unless there is another incentive for it, which option 3 provides, a one-seat ride across Scarborough.
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Either way, someone is going to be unhappy with the result, because the diversion to STC will mean that people coming from east or north of there will have to transfer twice to continue further west along Sheppard.

No matter what you do, someone is going to call foul.
 
Concept (1) is merely a subset of both concept (2A) and concept (3), and could be phase 1 of either of the latter (by the time they build to McC, if they chose (1) that would imply the line would never be extended again, or if it would be extended again they would have to have chosen (2A) or (3)). And I don't see why (3) (to Morningside) has to drop the extension to ShW, even if it has to be further in the future than the eastern extension.
 
The question about extending East vs West first is totally pointless until MX says where the train yard is going to go. Are they just going to run trains all the way around Line 1 from an expanded Wilson? Or from Davisville? Is there a new Eastern MSF? If so, where? The Western leg is easy, you just expand Wilson Yard and connect it to the line, but how do you expand significantly East first without a dedicated yard for all the extra trains?

Without those explanations this is just theater of MX drawing lines on a map and asking people which one makes them feel happiest, with any feedback likely be irrelevant once actual practical considerations are applied.
 
TossYourJacket said:
The question about extending East vs West first is totally pointless until MX says where the train yard is going to go. Are they just going to run trains all the way around Line 1 from an expanded Wilson? Or from Davisville? Is there a new Eastern MSF? If so, where? The Western leg is easy, you just expand Wilson Yard and connect it to the line, but how do you expand significantly East first without a dedicated yard for all the extra trains?

Without those explanations this is just theater of MX drawing lines on a map and asking people which one makes them feel happiest, with any feedback likely be irrelevant once actual practical considerations are applied.
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It's not about whether ShE or ShW will come first per se, but rather whether ShW would be happening at all if they choose concept 1 or 3. I think the ShW extension is essential for 2 reasons (tying both sides of line 1 and a direct connection to Wilson yard). Whether or not a new ShE MSF will eventually be built, using Wilson via the ShW extension is far more sensible than using Davisville via the Yonge line, or worse, Wilson via nearly the entirety of line 1.
 
81-717 said:
It's not about whether ShE or ShW will come first per se, but rather whether ShW would be happening at all if they choose concept 1 or 3. I think the ShW extension is essential for 2 reasons (tying both sides of line 1 and a direct connection to Wilson yard). Whether or not a new ShE MSF will eventually be built, using Wilson via the ShW extension is far more sensible than using Davisville via the Yonge line, or worse, Wilson via nearly the entirety of line 1.
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Yeah exactly, I totally agree. The West part is critical for both of those reasons.

Without explaining where the trains are going to be stored if you don't build the West extension (either first, at the same time, or at all), seems like a pretty big omission (and also an important thing for locals in the area to consider when voting for which option they prefer, would they still prefer Concept 1, Concept 3, or the Eastern leg being built first in the scenario of Concept 2, if it means a huge MSF being built somewhere near the line in Scarborough? Idk, but that information should be available for them to consider).
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I'm shocked option 3 is more popular, but that Sheppard/Markham area probably wants RT access. I think people don't wanna transfer at McCowan to go to STC unless there is another incentive for it, which option 3 provides, a one-seat ride across Scarborough.
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Option 3 is popular because the infosession was at Sheppard/Markham. Option 3 is the only option that brings a subway station right to the community centre we were in, and everyone out there reasonably would prefer to ride a subway their whole trip instead of taking a bus first!

I think people overestimate STC as a destination for people out this way. Really people want to commute across to North York Centre, or downtown via Line 2. Also, Line 4 to STC doesn't really help you get to STC from here.
 
2323 said:
There is some value to having a one seat ride from north of Steeles down Bathurst. Perhaps if the 160 is cancelled the 7 could be extended another 2km down Bathurst to Promenade Terminal. A ton of condos popping up around that whole area. Also now that the fare wall is gone, there's really no good reason not to have more cross city boundary bus lines. If you look on Google Maps, there really isn't a substantial density change north of Steeles, so it is kind of silly that we turn back the 7 before density really starts to taper on Bathurst (more north of Centre).
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There is value in that, for sure. But the matter is jurisdictional; TTC will not serve any areas north of Steeles, unless YRT asks them to do so, and pays for the service.
 
TossYourJacket said:
The question about extending East vs West first is totally pointless until MX says where the train yard is going to go. Are they just going to run trains all the way around Line 1 from an expanded Wilson? Or from Davisville? Is there a new Eastern MSF? If so, where? The Western leg is easy, you just expand Wilson Yard and connect it to the line, but how do you expand significantly East first without a dedicated yard for all the extra trains?

Without those explanations this is just theater of MX drawing lines on a map and asking people which one makes them feel happiest, with any feedback likely be irrelevant once actual practical considerations are applied.
Click to expand...

My guess, this is the reason they didn't present "Concept 4": east to Morningside and west to Sheppard West at the same time.

They know they have to do something about the train yard. Either they do the western section and gain a direct access to Wilson yard - Concepts 2A and 2B. Or, they push quite far east into Scarborough, and then they have a number of locations to choose from for the new yard - Concept 3.

Either of those options satisfies the technical needs. They don't want to ask for more money and risk the whole thing getting rejected.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
people don't want to transfer to go to STC which is what 2A means.
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transferring once to go to STC is the status quo. transferring twice from scarborough east to remain on sheppard, isn't.
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I agree with which is why I prefer it. I'm just saying from what the pop-up looked like, 2B is the most popular option.
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The Pop up posted by @Markster shows quite the opposite, people wanted option 3 as this would eliminate any transfer on sheppard as opposed to the current situation (1 transfer). Option 2a still keeps that status quo of 1 transfer for everyone east of Mccowan and eliminates transfers between kennedy and McCowan (both options elimate transfers between Kennedy and Don Mills, unless travelling east bound and planning to remian pn sheppard, where option 2a is yet again far superior ) Option 2B introduces an additional transfer as I have explained in my initial reply.

Essentially, option 2A keeps the status quo (but it improves the situation for people between Kennedy and McCowan by eliminating their transfer), and option 2B harms east and north scarborough in exchange of making it more convenient for North Yorkers to get to Scarborough town center. Seems very fair to me!
 
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afransen said:
The first consultation showed overwhelming preference for 2B over 2A among those in attendance.
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The first consultation was at the Chinese Cultural Centre near Sheppard/Markham. That is what's shown in @Markster post.
The second consultation (what @denfromoakvillemilton had posted) was at Earl Bales Community Centre at Sheppard/Bathurst.
 
Regardless of which direction the expansion initially takes it is going to trigger a massive development boom as a lot of land is going to be dramatically up-zoned.
 
As someone who lives east of McCowan on Lawrence, I still prefer the line to stay on McCowan, or the 2A route. It's 6 stops to get to STC with 1 transfer.
2b is still 6 stops with no transfer
2A has the provision to continue east along Sheppard with EELRT
Extending 2B becomes even more difficult
 
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