Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[micheal_can]

And you know I am not an advocate for the Yonge North line, right?

I did not.

I cannot understand what possible value there would be in extending the subway across parkland to a city of 99k people that has a commuter train that can get someone to Union station in 42 minutes. It defies logic. It may be the most illogical idea ever proposed on this website. It takes almost half an hour for a train to travel just from Sheppard-Yonge to Union on line 1... why would anyone except for a subway foamer take this?

GO is great if you are going downtown.Not so great to get elsewhere. GO is also not the cheapest. If the fares were the same, then GO, especially with RER would be better. But RER still does not exist and fare integration is not

Pickering GO to Kennedy GO:
With GO: $7.75
DRT/TTC: $3.35+$3.35 = $6.70
That is a dollar each way saved. There are people who would take the longer trip to save money.

 

[duty free]

what would be the point of the Consumers Station? The 2km between Don Mills & Vic Park seems fine to me for Line 4.

 

[Coolibop]

what would be the point of the Consumers Station? The 2km between Don Mills & Vic Park seems fine to me for Line 4.

Large (dense) employment hub.

 

[ARG1]

To get to Union, it can be 2 subway rides, and much cheaper.

And you know I am not an advocate for the Yonge North line, right?

I cannot understand what possible value there would be in extending the subway across parkland to a city of 99k people that has a commuter train that can get someone to Union station in 42 minutes. It defies logic. It may be the most illogical idea ever proposed on this website. It takes almost half an hour for a train to travel just from Sheppard-Yonge to Union on line 1... why would anyone except for a subway foamer take this?

Its almost as if the purpose of both lines would be to get people to destinations that aren't called Union. HMMM.

 

[micheal_can]

Its almost as if the purpose of both lines would be to get people to destinations that aren't called Union. HMMM.

... you mean there are other places to go?

 

[T3G]

GO is great if you are going downtown.Not so great to get elsewhere.

Its almost as if the purpose of both lines would be to get people to destinations that aren't called Union. HMMM.

And elsewhere is... where, exactly? What exactly exists on Sheppard Avenue East that someone from Pickering needs to get to so badly we need to spend billions of dollars on a subway to ensure they get there? It sucks if you're one of like 2 people who might need to make this journey, but we can't build a subway for every special interest case who might have business along a scarcely travelled corridor. We need to spend our limited - and I should say that word again, because it sounds vaguely important: limited public monies on useful projects that serve a lot of people. Most people in Pickering have no reason to be going on Sheppard Avenue East.

There is basically nothing in between Scarborough Town Centre and Pickering, except for the zoo, which is served by a bus connecting Rouge Hill GO. And anyone who wants to go to STC or to points further west would be far better served by taking the several bus lines that already run from Pickering to STC.

Pickering GO to Kennedy GO:
With GO: $7.75
DRT/TTC: $3.35+$3.35 = $6.70
That is a dollar each way saved. There are people who would take the longer trip to save money.

Spending BILLIONS of dollars on a subway extension so that a bunch of people can save two dollars each day is an outrageous idea. This is a textbook example of the notion of being penny wise and pound foolish.

Also, what is at Kennedy GO that can't be found in Pickering?

 

[micheal_can]

And elsewhere is... where, exactly? What exactly exists on Sheppard Avenue East that someone from Pickering needs to get to so badly we need to spend billions of dollars on a subway to ensure they get there? It sucks if you're one of like 2 people who might need to make this journey, but we can't build a subway for every special interest case who might have business along a scarcely travelled corridor. We need to spend our limited - and I should say that word again, because it sounds vaguely important: limited public monies on useful projects that serve a lot of people. Most people in Pickering have no reason to be going on Sheppard Avenue East.

There is basically nothing in between Scarborough Town Centre and Pickering, except for the zoo, which is served by a bus connecting Rouge Hill GO. And anyone who wants to go to STC or to points further west would be far better served by taking the several bus lines that already run from Pickering to STC.


Spending BILLIONS of dollars on a subway extension so that a bunch of people can save two dollars each day is an outrageous idea. This is a textbook example of the notion of being penny wise and pound foolish.

Also, what is at Kennedy GO that can't be found in Pickering?

You are right.there is absolutely nothing between the Pickering GO and Union Station. Just a vast wasteland...

Now, for something serious. Notice how the talk was of a college campus as being a station? That would be a draw for people in Pickering. An extension to Pickering could allow more students and faculty to live in Pickering and not be on a bus.

 

[kEiThZ]

But RER still does not exist and fare integration is not

RER will exist and be in service before this proposal gets a shovel in the ground.

GO is great if you are going downtown.

Wait till you hear about the GO Bus network.

See. This is the problem with living in Sudbury and thinking you know about transit in the GTA. You have no actual perspective on how people use transit in the GTA/GGH.

If the fares were the same, then GO, especially with RER would be better.

Pickering GO to Kennedy GO:
With GO: $7.75
DRT/TTC: $3.35+$3.35 = $6.70
That is a dollar each way saved. There are people who would take the longer trip to save money.

1) Simply cutting fares $1 is a lot cheaper than a multi-billion dollar extension.

2) We don't build multi-billion dollar extensions to save a minority of transit users $1.05.

3) Maybe people should pay more for faster and more comfortable service. Which is what GO is.

 

[ARG1]

And elsewhere is... where, exactly? What exactly exists on Sheppard Avenue East that someone from Pickering needs to get to so badly we need to spend billions of dollars on a subway to ensure they get there? It sucks if you're one of like 2 people who might need to make this journey, but we can't build a subway for every special interest case who might have business along a scarcely travelled corridor. We need to spend our limited - and I should say that word again, because it sounds vaguely important: limited public monies on useful projects that serve a lot of people. Most people in Pickering have no reason to be going on Sheppard Avenue East.

There is basically nothing in between Scarborough Town Centre and Pickering, except for the zoo, which is served by a bus connecting Rouge Hill GO. And anyone who wants to go to STC or to points further west would be far better served by taking the several bus lines that already run from Pickering to STC.


Spending BILLIONS of dollars on a subway extension so that a bunch of people can save two dollars each day is an outrageous idea. This is a textbook example of the notion of being penny wise and pound foolish.

Also, what is at Kennedy GO that can't be found in Pickering?

North York? STC?

Listen I'm not saying its a priority project, this is like a 50-60 years from now project. Fact of the matter is that NYCC is still a very important node, and we're currently upzoning STC and Sheppard-McCowan like crazy. These will be important notes with a lot of demand. Like, we're not building subways to connect to Uncle Gary's House.

 

[Bojaxs]

You are right.there is absolutely nothing between the Pickering GO and Union Station. Just a vast wasteland...

Now, for something serious. Notice how the talk was of a college campus as being a station? That would be a draw for people in Pickering. An extension to Pickering could allow more students and faculty to live in Pickering and not be on a bus.

If it were possible, Stouffville line trains would stop at Scarborough GO station, and then people could transfer there onto an eastbound, LSE train to get to Pickering.

Then we wouldn't need to extend the Sheppard line all the way to Pickering. People going to Pickering could just transfer from the Sheppard line to Agincourt GO.

 

[T3G]

You are right.there is absolutely nothing between the Pickering GO and Union Station. Just a vast wasteland...

Where did I say anything about between Pickering GO and Union station??? Are you making stuff up???

Eastern Scarborough is largely residential. How many people do you think are itching to get there from Pickering, and to do what??? On Sheppard, east of Markham, there is the plaza at Morningside, a handful of churches, and literally nothing else. This is not a reason to build a subway.

An extension to Pickering could allow more students and faculty to live in Pickering and not be on a bus.

What is the significance of letting people not be on a bus? Do the buses struggle to carry all the people who need to get there, or something?

Subways should be built where there is an excess of demand and the current transit system fails to meet that demand. They are not something to build willy nilly over a region to serve fringe use cases and generally fill in "gaps" on a map.

 

[kEiThZ]

Spending BILLIONS of dollars on a subway extension so that a bunch of people can save two dollars each day is an outrageous idea. This is a textbook example of the notion of being penny wise and pound foolish.

I love that the rest of you who don't regularly frequent the several intercity threads are discovering the joy of dealing with the consummate railfan who thinks any problem can be solved with a multi-billion dollar rail line.

 

[Northern Light]

GO is great if you are going downtown.Not so great to get elsewhere. GO is also not the cheapest. If the fares were the same, then GO, especially with RER would be better. But RER still does not exist and fare integration is not

Pickering GO to Kennedy GO:
With GO: $7.75
DRT/TTC: $3.35+$3.35 = $6.70
That is a dollar each way saved. There are people who would take the longer trip to save money.

Hold it...........where did you get this math from?

I just went on GO's website and asked for a fare calculation for Pickering GO to Toronto Union for the next train:

$7.91 is the Presto Fare

By contrast if use DRT to TTC, the one fare rule would be the you pay the fare of the more expensive provider.

So that's $3.35

The savings vs GO is over over $4.55 per direction

Math and underlying facts are important here.


****

I don't even know what your point was meant to be.......I'm fairly confident it was suspect, I will read back to confirm.........just the erroneous math jumps out at me.

 

[Aplus23]

Again I'm on the side of 2A, I think the option out to morningside was just add 4 options.
Send this to McCown n Sheppard, have the EELRT meet it on the other side. Then you have a crosstown line from Morningside all the way to Sheppard West, with 1 transfer at McCowan.

 

[micheal_can]

RER will exist and be in service before this proposal gets a shovel in the ground.

I am not saying that it must happen. In fact I do find it silly that the subways keep getting extended when GO RER is what is likely a bigger need. However, the fact that it is easier to dig tunnels than to make GO RER happen is the bigger problem than needs to be fixed.

Wait till you hear about the GO Bus network.

See. This is the problem with living in Sudbury and thinking you know about transit in the GTA. You have no actual perspective on how people use transit in the GTA/GGH.

I like how you assumed I did not know of them.
Did you know they used to go throughout York Region more than they do now?

1) Simply cutting fares $1 is a lot cheaper than a multi-billion dollar extension.

This is what I really mean when I say fare integration. Others may have other definitions, but mine is that the fare should be the same regardless of the transit agency you use. The whole GTHA should be set up as a giant fare zone system.

3) Maybe people should pay more for faster and more comfortable service. Which is what GO is.

Maybe, but with high inflation, people will cut where they can. The ride to/from work might be one of them. That savings could be about $40. really, what is needed is the monthly passes should be saving people who work5 days a week this kind of money too.

If it were possible, Stouffville line trains would stop at Scarborough GO station, and then people could transfer there onto a Eastbound, LSE train to get to Pickering.

Then we wouldn't need to extend the Sheppard line all the way to Pickering. People could just transfer from the Sheppard line at Agincourt GO.

That would be another good solution.