Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[asher__jo]

That was in 2021. And it still doesn't come close to justifying the argument that Ford should get a "participation trophy" when the provincial government is paying the majority of the cost of most transit construction in the GTA. As if going from 33% to 40% share is why we're having a transit boom in Ontario. How much are the GTA municipalities pitching in for these projects?

I'm just pointing out that many of the projects you are solely attributing to Ford are the result of work done under the Wynne government and funding from other levels of government. 40% is definitely far more that 33% when you start adding up the funding over multiple projects. Do I think the federal government should have permanent transit funding and discussion move on from cost-sharing on a project by project basis. Something as simple as covering costs to upgrade bus routes with signal priority or HOV lanes would make immense change with little capital investment.
My point is that I think Doug Ford deserves very little credit. To me he's a Canadian George Bush; likeable but no policy wonk.

 

[Steve X]

You're right, Ford should definitely get a participation trophy for spending money. The Feds are responsible for probably 40% of that.

Ford used a bully tactic which worked in his and our favour. Instead of getting the feds to agree on the funds first (which could take ages), he went on to announcing it with the hopes the feds will chip in. Then it'll make the feds look bad if they don't care.

Of course these projects are all back ended with the bulk of the funding coming in the 2026-2030 term. Ford is signing and whoever is in power in 2026 will pay for it. You got the Liberals to thank for this tactic.

 

[Sunnyside]

Ford used a bully tactic which worked in his and our favour. Instead of getting the feds to agree on the funds first (which could take ages), he went on to announcing it with the hopes the feds will chip in. Then it'll make the feds look bad if they don't care.

Of course these projects are all back ended with the bulk of the funding coming in the 2026-2030 term. Ford is signing and whoever is in power in 2026 will pay for it. You got the Liberals to thank for this tactic.

It’s pretty airtight. Either you stay in government and everyone gives you credit as a dozen projects open, or you lose and have the liberals stick by them because there’s no alternative. Ford has lined up the pieces to screw any backtracking government waaaaayy harder than he got.

Most tact of all, this can be demoralizing; you either lose to Ford, live in his shadow of projects, or ruin your own party reputation by altering them. Consider that many things under Ford have been value engineered in some way to deliver more transit-kms (namely the OL), so you can’t cut costs any further without outright cancelling them. There is no RL-> OL “out” anymore, and the liberals have an even bigger stake in un-started projects like the Hamilton LRT than Ford does…

Talk about locking in your legacy. It seems the final chess piece is the 413.

 

[Undead]

??? I'm not aware of any police investigations of Trudeau or cabinet.

You're unaware of the massive and growing anger at Trudeau?

 

[afransen]

Well now.............

I'm all for burying former Premier Wynne for the Hydro One debacle, or for being late to the game on some progressive policies (minimum wage, paid sick days) among other things. Certainly, the government she led was slow on GO Expansion.....

But....

Eglinton Crosstown TBMs went in the ground the year she became premier. At the time, this would have been the largest public transit expansion (single line) in North America.

The TYSSE was also underway and wrapped in 2017 on her watch.

It was also on Wynne's watch that GO Lakeshore first moved to every 30M off-peak service from hourly; a literal doubling of off peak service, on that corridor.

So I don't think its fair to say no major transit got built during her time as Premier.

There was arguably more dawdling during the McGuinty years, though they did deliver UPX, and started TYSSE.

Eglinton Crosstown is a debacle from start to finish, I'm not sure she deserves much credit for it.

 

[afransen]

I almost think Ford's funding of transit is a 'Only Nixon could go to China' effect. It takes a populist right winger to be able to make big transit investments, where mushy left wing governments like McGuinty and Wynnne feel the need to slow roll transit investments and shore up road investments to protect their right flank with suburban voters.

 

[dowlingm]

I almost think Ford's funding of transit is a 'Only Nixon could go to China' effect. It takes a populist right winger to be able to make big transit investments, where mushy left wing governments like McGuinty and Wynnne feel the need to slow roll transit investments and shore up road investments to protect their right flank with suburban voters.

If the choices were

1. DRL and SLRT, or
2. Ontario Line, SSE and a pay as you go health service with Galen Weston’s brands on it

I know this is a transit board but option 1 is an easier yes for me,

 

[nfitz]

You're unaware of the massive and growing anger at Trudeau?

What has that got to do with the chances of Sheppard Extension getting built or not? Or the various police investigations into the cabinet that may yield a change of government?

 

[dowlingm]

What has that got to do with the chances of Sheppard Extension getting built or not? Or the various police investigations into the cabinet that may yield a change of government?

 

[Undead]

What has that got to do with the chances of Sheppard Extension getting built or not? Or the various police investigations into the cabinet that may yield a change of government?

Fitz, you're a sophisticated guy. I don't know why you play dumb so often. I think putting you back on ignore is a good idea.

To jog your memory on what started this tangent:

 

[nfitz]

Fitz, you're a sophisticated guy. I don't know why you play dumb so often. I think putting you back on ignore is a good idea.

To jog your memory on what started this tangent:

View attachment 553037

go back further

And if it's a tangent .... why? What's it got to do with the post it's replying to? Need some modding.

Not sure why the personal comments ...

 

[11th]

If the choices were

1. DRL and SLRT, or
2. Ontario Line, SSE and a pay as you go health service with Galen Weston’s brands on it

I know this is a transit board but option 1 is an easier yes for me,

Except even with option 1, you may still get the pay-as-you-go health service down the road from a different government. Infrastructures such as rapid transit lines are difficult/costly to tweak once they are built. We already have plenty of examples of that.

 

[christiesplits]

Does anyone have an estimate for what a two-stop (Consumers and Vic Park) Sheppard subway extension would cost? Recall Karen Stintz proposed this a decade ago.

 

[Northern Light]

Does anyone have an estimate for what a two-stop (Consumers and Vic Park) Sheppard subway extension would cost? Recall Karen Stintz proposed this a decade ago.

Don't have any official numbers, so give me some latitude, but with current construction costs, excluding rolling stock, I'd peg the number at around 1.6 - 2B (I'm assuming the tunnel is deep enough below 404/DVP that no underpinning is required)

That assumes a tunnelling cost of 350M per km, and 400m per station for 2 stations. with allowance for fit-out/signals.

* There are conditional matters including whether additional rolling stock can be stored in-line or would require new capacity, and whether this would trigger the need to fit out the original stations to their six-car configuration.

 

[christiesplits]

Don't have any official numbers, so give me some latitude, but with current construction costs, excluding rolling stock, I'd peg the number at around 1.6 - 2B (I'm assuming the tunnel is deep enough below 404/DVP that no underpinning is required)

That assumes a tunnelling cost of 350M per km, and 400m per station for 2 stations. with allowance for fit-out/signals.

* There are conditional matters including whether additional rolling stock can be stored in-line or would require new capacity, and whether this would trigger the need to fit out the original stations to their six-car configuration.

Thanks, Northern.

I think we could end up seeing something like this, a subway extension+LRT hybrid, with the Victoria Park North Station being pitched as a "Gateway to Scarborough."