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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

http://www.francesbula.com/uncatego...g-scheme-still-generates-interest-and-debate/

I am not sold on P3. I do not think there is any magic way to get a transit line to pay for itself, but I do think it is needed if the jurisdiction is not smart enough to design the line properly. Thus, I think it maybe it is needed in Ontario. From the article, I found the following:

- more accessible underground station designs that were closer to the surface and had fewer stairs, which would decrease total travel time and enhance convenience. This may be related to the use of cut and cover construction, though it is not explicitly stated in the report.
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I would also say that the time needed to access an elevated station (8m above grade) is less than to access an underground station (that is 20m below grade).
 
rbt said:
The main driver of construction costs escalation has been almost entirely safety standards (much bigger tunnels, larger platforms, worker safety, improved waste disposal/cleaning) and accommodation of disabilities (elevators, escalators, ...).
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Which is why I'm for beefing up WheelTrans rather than making the whole system accessible. And increased safety standards often just leads to more carelessness, and thus wasted money.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
But that's just it--LRT in place of a subway extension makes little sense, whereas an LRT on a brand new corridor makes a lot of sense. I'm all for the Eglinton line because it makes sense to have it tunneled in the central portion and above ground for the rest (although we'll see how well it will run in the at-grade portion).

But building a Sheppard East LRT or the SRT conversion instead of the Danforth extension just run counter to every fibre in my being, and I cannot support them.

Hurontario and Finch as LRT I think are perfectly adequate, same with the LRTs in Hamilton and KW.
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My guess is that the Sheppard LRT will go forward as long as Ford is not re-elected as mayor and Hudak is not elected as premier. The other municipal and provincial candidates will get out of the way and allow Toronto to finally build instead of talk.

There is more likelihood of a disruption to the Bloor/Danforth subway extension to Sheppard given that Chow has said she'd revert to the Scarborough LRT plan. Either is fine with me, and I don't believe this debate would have went on so long if the TTC wasn't so obstinate about not connecting the Eglinton and Scarborough LRT lines. Instead of making a transfer where none is needed the TTC could learn how to manage its trains better.

From my perspective, and which ever is built, the interchange point on Sheppard and (McCowan or Markham) is more important for the network value.
 
quicksilver said:
My guess is that the Sheppard LRT will go forward as long as Ford is not re-elected as mayor and Hudak is not elected as premier. The other municipal and provincial candidates will get out of the way and allow Toronto to finally build instead of talk.

There is more likelihood of a disruption to the Bloor/Danforth subway extension to Sheppard given that Chow has said she'd revert to the Scarborough LRT plan. Either is fine with me, and I don't believe this debate would have went on so long if the TTC wasn't so obstinate about not connecting the Eglinton and Scarborough LRT lines. Instead of making a transfer where none is needed the TTC could learn how to manage its trains better.

From my perspective, and which ever is built, the interchange point on Sheppard and (McCowan or Markham) is more important for the network value.
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This is the issue no one talks about.
 
I'm 75% sure that Sheppard and Finch will go ahead as planned.

Regardless of what sensationalist nonsense the media is feeding the masses, there won't be a spring election. We're liberal up until fall 2015.

When next years election does happen chances are that the Liberal campaign machine will pull off another win. The polls, while close, do give the Liberals a slight edge over the Conservatives. And as the spending scandals fade from memory, the liberals should have nowhere but up to go (as long as they continue stay out of trouble).

BTW, any by elections in the ridings the LRT passes through are just as much as a threat. That's what I'm more immediately concerned with.
 
picard102 said:
Transit planning based on personal vision and dreams of legacy, politics. Not planning based on need. Don't derail the thread.
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Yeah a personal vision that was misguided. That's not politics. Everyone had said Toronto was fiscally irresponsible. We have a plan a transit plan, imperfect as it was. Now because it's not the type of technology you like, it sucks. If Transit City ever had any success, it exposed people that liked to talk out of both sides of their mouths when it comes to spending money
 
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What was so wrong with the Transit City plan? AFAIK, each line was researched by transit experts and backed by Miller. Even in the 2010-2012 debates, the experts were almost unanimously saying LRT was the way to go, reaching farther toward the remote edges of the city faster than subway ever would. If I'm wrong please let me know. It only got political when Ford came in to office and put the brakes on.
As for the LRT debate generally, the province needs to build one first. And fast. I suppose we'll have a short at-surface example in 2020 once Eglinton is complete. Once everyone gets a look at what a true LRT looks like, a more critical debate can be had with true examples on each side to view and judge.
With the Crosstown, if the TTC has any thoughts of extending east to, say U of T Scarborough via Kingston RD & Morningside, the SRT & current Xtown terminus shouldn't connect for through running. One seat right across Eglinton. Btw, in this case the underground portion goes to about 1/4 of the total length (including the airport extension).
To the Sheppard Subway vs LRT, I would still like to know once and for all if it's possible to convert the current subway to run LRT and what would be involved with lowering platforms/raising tracks in stations & replacing the third rail with power LRT can use.
 
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