Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[robmausser]

What's' the point of extending it at a difrent gauge? Also why would you want to waste money regaugue the existing line?

Because theres an associate cost savings, however minor, with sticking to standard gauge. Both in the near and long term.

Ontop of that, it would not be a waste to regauge the existing line, the tracks will need to be replaced come 2035, and so you'd just change the gauge when retracking was done.

 

[44 North]

Because theres an associate cost savings, however minor, with sticking to standard gauge. Both in the near and long term.

Ontop of that, it would not be a waste to regauge the existing line, the tracks will need to be replaced come 2035, and so you'd just change the gauge when retracking was done.

Is this so it could run the same trains and be interchangeable with OL? If such is the case OL would need retractable pantos, and there'd be a bit more mods to the Sheppard line needed (adding catenary etc). Yet another reason OL should use third rail - so that Sheppard could easily be converted. Regauge the track, move the third rail a bit, extend the platforms. And if OL's capacity numbers are to be believed Sheppard could be built for 25m long trains. Storage could be on the line with trains trucked to Thorncliffe until an eventual connection is built with a northern OL extension.

If anyone thinks 6-car TR is how Sheppard should be extended, just do the basic math. YNSE is the most expensive transit project per km in the GTA and near the top on the planet. A Sheppard extension would be more expensive. Switching the line to a 'lighter' subway (e.g 50m trains) is the only logical option.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

If anyone thinks 6-car TR is how Sheppard should be extended, just do the basic math. YNSE is the most expensive transit project per km in the GTA and near the top on the planet. A Sheppard extension would be more expensive. Switching the line to a 'lighter' subway (e.g 50m trains) is the only logical option.

That sounds completely insane you have no clue what you are talking about at all. As of right now line 4 connects with line 1 just south of Sheppard sation so that they can use davisvile yard. If they do go with something completely different then they need to build a new yard and that would add to the cost even more than you seem to think that sticking with the same gauge and trains as the rest of the subway system.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Because theres an associate cost savings, however minor, with sticking to standard gauge. Both in the near and long term.

Ontop of that, it would not be a waste to regauge the existing line, the tracks will need to be replaced come 2035, and so you'd just change the gauge when retracking was done.

You really have no idea what you are taking about if you think that they would do something like that

 

[Cobra]

I think it strengthens the case for local transit, but with the SSE extension I don't think it makes this project anymore of a priority.

Yes, it's called "buses"!

But a bigger Scarborough Centre needs to be linked to other centers like North York Centre and downtown by edficient rapid transit

 

[JSF-1]

This will certainly strengthen the case for an eastern extension
https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2022/02/planning-future-scarborough-centre-one-tall-task
View attachment 380603

Not only does it strengthen the case for it, it also imo strength's the case that STC should be where Line 2 and 4 connect.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes, it's called "buses"!

But a bigger Scarborough Centre needs to be linked to other centers like North York Centre and downtown by edficient rapid transit

But this doesn't connect to the Sheppard subway. Just Bloor Danforth. You have to transfer at Sheppard-McCowan in the Future.

Both subways should have terminated at STC.

 

[tsm1072]

But this doesn't connect to the Sheppard subway. Just Bloor Danforth. You have to transfer at Sheppard-McCowan in the Future.

Both subways should have terminated at STC.

Potentially, but the connection at McCowan allows for an at-grade extension to Malvern in the CP corridor. Ending near Sheppard and McCowan also allows for a new MSF for both Line 2 and Line 4 I'm the vacant space of the CP yard. The new MSF is significant as it would allow the TTC to downsize Greenwood and potentially make some good money from developing parts of the Greenwood yard.

If HFR goes ahead, there may also be a Via station built at Sheppard and McCowan. So there are definitely some advantages of staying on/near Sheppard.

 

[44 North]

That sounds completely insane you have no clue what you are talking about at all. As of right now line 4 connects with line 1 just south of Sheppard sation so that they can use davisvile yard. If they do go with something completely different then they need to build a new yard and that would add to the cost even more than you seem to think that sticking with the same gauge and trains as the rest of the subway system.

Now hold on a sec here lol. I clearly addressed the issue of storage and maintenance. That is, temporarily trucked to the proposed Thorncliffe facility until an eventual connection is made on Don Mills. Optimal? Not exactly. Doable? Seemingly. Line 3 trains have been trucked to Greenwood temporarily for 35yrs.

Not only does it strengthen the case for it, it also imo strength's the case that STC should be where Line 2 and 4 connect.

Definitely a bit weird the Prov wants to bypass SC. Aligns with places to grow, mobility hubs, urban growth centres, and there's an E-W corridor available that can affordably take the line right to SC and beyond to Centennial (so also aligns with stance of lowering costs of transit infrastructure). Why QP is not pursuing it, and have taken on the role of backroom urban planners, is a bit out of sorts. Seems like Sheppard extension is a mystery that looks good on a map going nice and straight, and to be used as an election tool indefinitely.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

,

Now hold on a sec here lol. I clearly addressed the issue of storage and maintenance. That is, temporarily trucked to the proposed Thorncliffe facility until an eventual connection is made on Don Mills. Optimal? Not exactly. Doable? Seemingly. Line 3 trains have been trucked to Greenwood temporarily for 35yrs.

I still don't see how your plans would work at all. Replacement of rails is something that can be done overnight in sections or in some cases over a weekend if its a larger section that they need to replace. Reguaging the line to accept a completely different type of vehicle then it was designed for could take a year to do. Your ideas don't make any sense at all.

 

[44 North]

,

I still don't see how your plans would work at all. Replacement of rails is something that can be done overnight in sections or in some cases over a weekend if its a larger section that they need to replace. Reguaging the line to accept a completely different type of vehicle then it was designed for could take a year to do. Your ideas don't make any sense at all.

Replacement could be a year. Could be two or three. Still sounds a lot more affordable and realistic than blindly promising to extend it unfunded as 6-car TR - putting it right up there as one of the most expensive transit projects per km in the world. Is anyone aware Sheppard is simply an election doodle right now?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Replacement could be a year. Could be two or three. Still sounds a lot more affordable and realistic than blindly promising to extend it unfunded as 6-car TR - putting it right up there as one of the most expensive transit projects per km in the world. Is anyone aware Sheppard is simply an election doodle right now?

Your plan makes no sense at and is a waste of money and time for no reason at all. You are not going to convince anyone here that it makes any sense at all to convert an existing subway line to something else. It's come up multipe times on this thread already. It's not going to happen no matter how many times you post about your ideas.

 

[44 North]

Your plan makes no sense at and is a waste of money and time for no reason at all. You are not going to convince anyone here that it makes any sense at all to convert an existing subway line to something else. It's come up multipe times on this thread already. It's not going to happen no matter how many times you post about your ideas.

Then Tweet Schabas. He works for the province and was a backer of a variant of the plan. It's been written about in a semi-official capacity. I think it makes a lot of sense. Fiscally predominantly, but planning wise as well. Shorter trains, can (re)-use existing station footprints within Scarb Ctr district allowing for more stations within the centre, can follow through with former Line 3 extension plans to Centennial and Malvern. A political party's astronomically expensive and unfunded vote-for-me football that the fantasy is now? I think it's better.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

You are not going to convince anyone here that it makes any sense at all to convert an existing subway line to something else

You don’t get to speak for me.

It was pointed out this week that there is most definitely diverging opinion on methods for Shepard, and more than one of us see reasonable arguments for technology changes.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Then Tweet Schabas. He works for the province and was a backer of a variant of the plan. It's been written about in a semi-official capacity. I think it makes a lot of sense. Fiscally predominantly, but planning wise as well. Shorter trains, can (re)-use existing station footprints within Scarb Ctr district allowing for more stations within the centre, can follow through with former Line 3 extension plans to Centennial and Malvern. A political party's astronomically expensive and unfunded vote-for-me football that the fantasy is now? I think it's better.

I still say it's far fetched and not likely going to happen. I forgot that working for the province makes someone an expert in all things to do with public transport.

You don’t get to speak for me.

It was pointed out this week that there is most definitely diverging opinion on methods for Shepard, and more than one of us see reasonable arguments for technology changes.

I really don't care who i speak for i just said that it's been suggested many times on here and on the thread for the shepherd LRT that we should just rip everything up and change the line completely for no good reason.