Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[afransen]

I would expect with metrolinx new direction of using less tunneling with the yonge extension and ontario line, that Sheppard would be mostly elevated. And looking at the davenport grade separation heavy rail elevation can be done in an urban and attractive way.

I am much less confident of this. ML is tunneling most of the YSE, just daylighting it at the terminus.

 

[Tristen]

 

[Tristen]

While TTC is converting busy bus routes to LRTs, nothing is proposed for the busiest section of road in Ontario.

 

[DirectionNorth]

While TTC is converting busy bus routes to LRTs, nothing is proposed for the busiest section of road in Ontario.

What are you going to do, add more lanes to a 16 leave highway? Houston had down that it doesn't work. Really, you're not going to get more expansions - transit will get people of the roads (pay off the problem is that parties have neglected infrastructure for decades, leaving us in this state).

 

[Bureaucromancer]

What are you going to do, add more lanes to a 16 leave highway? Houston had down that it doesn't work. Really, you're not going to get more expansions - transit will get people of the roads (pay off the problem is that parties have neglected infrastructure for decades, leaving us in this state).

In fairness, the gap highlighted really isn't one that anything even vaguely on current plans address, nor do I even hold out much hope that any will. The closest we might come is if the 407 Transitway jumps up in priority AND is rerouted down the 427.

 

[Coolstar]

In fairness, the gap highlighted really isn't one that anything even vaguely on current plans address, nor do I even hold out much hope that any will. The closest we might come is if the 407 Transitway jumps up in priority AND is rerouted down the 427.

Based on the 2050 GGH plan, that might actually be the case.

 

[EnviroTO]

Whenever I think Sheppard West extension I think where is the ideal Line 1 transfer point, Barrie Line transfer point, future Bolton line transfer point, Kitchener line transfer point, airport connection point, and connection to Mississauga. When I think of those things I get something like the line above or something that completely replaces the Finch LRT.

 

[Rainforest]

^ The optimal route partly depends on the technology. If Sheppard remains a TTC subway, then the pink route between Yonge and Hwy 400 should be the best. Easier to connect to the Line 1 tracks between Sheppard and Wilson, where the Line 1 tracks run at grade. And, there is enough room for the curves. West of Hwy 400, the red line looks appealing.

If Sheppard is converted to light metro / OL style rolling stock, then using the red line route for the whole length west of Yonbge should be a good idea.

 

[Tristen]

View attachment 344542

Whenever I think Sheppard West extension I think where is the ideal Line 1 transfer point, Barrie Line transfer point, future Bolton line transfer point, Kitchener line transfer point, airport connection point, and connection to Mississauga. When I think of those things I get something like the line above or something that completely replaces the Finch LRT.

For the red alignment, it is difficult(does not improve travel time) for people living at North Etobicoke to go to Wilson. They either take a bus -> red line -> bus again, or bus -> red line -> transfer at Downsview park -> Wilson

 

[EnviroTO]

For the red alignment, it is difficult(does not improve travel time) for people living at North Etobicoke to go to Wilson. They either take a bus -> red line -> bus again, or bus -> red line -> transfer at Downsview park -> Wilson

Is Wilson station the place where people from North Etobicoke are hanging out these days?

Yes, you would take bus to Line 6 or Line 4 then transfer to Line 1. However, by putting multiple connections in the same place there are better options across all the possible paths. What would be the path North Etobicoke to Aurora, York University to Scarborough, etc. Does going to Downsview mean a small backtrack for some... yes but a backtrack on a subway which will cover that distance quicker, but a different location would create more transfers and backtracks.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Is Wilson station the place where people from North Etobicoke are hanging out these days?

Yes, you would take bus to Line 6 or Line 4 then transfer to Line 1. However, by putting multiple connections in the same place there are better options across all the possible paths. What would be the path North Etobicoke to Aurora, York University to Scarborough, etc. Does going to Downsview mean a small backtrack for some... yes but a backtrack on a subway which will cover that distance quicker, but a different location would create more transfers and backtracks.

I'm honestly rather fond of Reece Martin's version that extends FWLRT to Downsview Park for GO connectivity and through routes (some?) Sheppard trains onto the York extension for single seat connections to GO, York, 407 and Viva...

Definitely a departure from TTC practice, but not a place that interlining would be majorly disruptive even when it does go wrong, and similarly, it definitely helps the cost of a proper grade separated junction at Sheppard West if the interlining negates the need for however many additional km of subway west to the airport...

 

[kamira51]

View attachment 344542

Whenever I think Sheppard West extension I think where is the ideal Line 1 transfer point, Barrie Line transfer point, future Bolton line transfer point, Kitchener line transfer point, airport connection point, and connection to Mississauga. When I think of those things I get something like the line above or something that completely replaces the Finch LRT.

You did such a fantastic edit for displaying the different proposals for the Sheppard line routing.

 

[Tristen]

View attachment 343964

You did such a fantastic edit for displaying the different proposals for the Sheppard line routing.

The light blue, purple, and pink lines are actually my ideas

 

[Rainforest]

I'm honestly rather fond of Reece Martin's version that extends FWLRT to Downsview Park for GO connectivity and through routes (some?) Sheppard trains onto the York extension for single seat connections to GO, York, 407 and Viva...

Definitely a departure from TTC practice, but not a place that interlining would be majorly disruptive even when it does go wrong, and similarly, it definitely helps the cost of a proper grade separated junction at Sheppard West if the interlining negates the need for however many additional km of subway west to the airport...

It would be great to route the Sheppard trains onto the York extension, if the track configuration allowed that. Half of the trains coming from downtown could short-turn at Sheppard West, making room further north for the Sheppard trains.

But it will be difficult to connect the Sheppard tracks to the York extension now, as the line runs underground north of Sheppard and wasn't built with such a connection in mind. In contrast, the St George / Bay / Museum Y-interchange was built to allow interlining from the onset.

Re: extending FWLRT to Downsview Park, I expect that a lot more Finch LRT riders would benefit from extending it to Yonge, where the subway can take them to multiple destinations in North York, as well as in Vaughan / Markham in the near future.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Re: extending FWLRT to Downsview Park, I expect that a lot more Finch LRT riders would benefit from extending it to Yonge, where the subway can take them to multiple destinations in North York, as well as in Vaughan / Markham in the near future.

I don't think there's any case to be made against Finch to Yonge unless Sheppard West happens, but assuming we are headed in that direction both is going to be a really bad look politically even if the numbers could be made to work.

As far as difficulty of a junction, yes, but. In no scenario is what amounts to a single flyunder going to be a more costly piece of work than going west all the way to Pearson/Woodbine/Renforth.