Sharon Yetman's Subway Safety Plan (Better barrier for subways 'an obsession')

[hbl33]

Looking even more closely at that picture with your description.

That is really cool. However, my invention is still different.

Think about it. That train now has only 1/2 the doors doing exiting and 1/2 the doors doing boarding.

Toronto could not do that even if such trains dropped out of heaven as a free gift.

We have too many people getting off in the morning. All too many people getting on an night.

This barrier wall can only be used with ATC, and must have uniform rolling stock. But it is cool for non crowded trains.
Sharon.

Yes I like that idea, in theory. But no subways ever work like this, and it never will (unless if the subway car has giant gates for mass enter/exit).

Have you seen how narrow the subway car is inside? its all the spaces filled with passengers and fixed seats. There has to be a room inside the car allowing the passengers to pass through even at peak hours. That is why no enter/exit passenger flow is possible at rush times.

Instead of a barrier, introduce a stock that will have foldable seats during the peak hours, and have them unfolded after the peak. Tokyo's Yamanote has that system. And forget the "PRIORITY SEATING", in fact only 1 in 1000 (from my experience so far) using them are actual disabled and elderly, and other 999 are ordinary passengers. Barriers do nothing to control the passengers entering into the train and exiting from the train other than segregating the direction.

 

[Asterix]

With most all "edge" platform safety you must have one of two things.

1. Automatic Train Control, We will be another 8 years for the Yonge line for that and who knows for the bloor line.

2. You need to slow your entire system down in order to do "manual braking" which is tough to do, and creates big delays, if you over shoot.

3. Oh yes, and you need uniform rolling stock.

Which two of these three are you referring to when you say "one of two things"?

Isn't the point of ATC that there wouldn't need to be 'manual braking' or over-shoots?

What of the current TTC fleet is not uniform rolling stock? (I'm guessing you mean with respect to car length and door positioning.)

I certainly am not proud if I am wrong. All I seek is the opportunity to explain myself in a professional manner. I may not have power point, but I believe I have mastered the art of passenger flow for subway platforms like no other.

As others have asked previously, what studies or tests have you done that would support your assertion that you have "mastered the art of passenger flow"..."like no other"?

I would think it would be a little presumptuous to expect the TTC to take such a statement at face value if no actual proofs-of-concept have been provided. Prototypes are one thing, but I really don't believe that one can properly model human movement decisions only using dolls or stick figures. If it really were that simple, then arrows and lights on the platform would be enough.

 

[DavidH]

As others have asked previously, what studies or tests have you done that would support your assertion that you have "mastered the art of passenger flow"..."like no other"?

I second this request. If she is claiming that she is better at modelling passenger flow than every other single person on the planet, all I can say is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[Dolemite]

I second this request. If she is claiming that she is better at modelling passenger flow than every other single person on the planet, all I can say is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Thirded,
often in massive commuter/passenger environments, like airports/transit hubs/etc, computational modeling software is used to identify choke points and probable passenger flows based on a number of parameters. There are logistics consultants (we've used Arup's in the past) that know how to do this and will input into the design of such environments at the concept phase. Why on earth would we (engineers/architects/the construction industry/planners/ttc) want to consult or buy something represented with toy trains and figurines???

 

[kEiThZ]

Agreed with the above. Flow modelling is a rather complex science that quite a few people make careers out of. If somebody is going to challenge their very scientific results you better have damn good models and simulations.

Sharon says she does. I am guessing the TTC disagrees that the quality of her models and sims are good enough to be considered professional.

Something tells me that Sharon wants the TTC to fund her proof-of-concept and fund her development, as her first client. I have worked in procurement offices where we've had bidders who've made such proposals. "Mine's the best. You'll see when I build it. All you have to do is give me the money and it'll work out in the future."

Government organizations are rightly weary of such proposals. They used to get suckered into such proposals in the past under the guise of supporting Canadian industry, only to get substandard products at prices that border on extortion. That era has passed, thankfully. These days, you better have a quality product with a low risk offer if you want a chance to succeed. If we have this many doubts here on Sharon's system, I don't blame the TTC for being skeptical.

Sharon, if you want a chance, you have to stop coming off as some angry transit advocate. You want to compete with the big boys? You better bring the big guns. Your proposal should have images and graphics like the one above (no pics with figurines and pvc pipes). It should include detailed modelling and statistical analysis on passenger flows on the platform. In short, your proposal should be as good as a brochure from Bombardier or Arup or SNC-Lavalin. And you should be able to answer every question as clearly and concisely as one of their engineers...and without anger or emotion. If you believe in your idea, spend 10-20k and get some proper modelling done (signed off by a PEng) and get proper brochures made with nice graphics. And register a company and send in the proposal from them. Not from Sharon. That'll get you results or at least it'll be more likely to get you results.

 

[kEiThZ]

http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showpost.php?p=336369&postcount=116

Sharon,

Could you answer the questions posed in my post linked to above?

 

[Asterix]

All I can say is I must have a meeting.

But, as several have tried to explain, you are insisting on putting the cart before the horse.

I understand if your data is confidential, proprietary or whatever and you don't want to publish it on this message board, but the question still stands: do you have that data?

Your latest post strongly implies you don't but that your presentation skills and genuine earnestness will be enough to negate that fact.

I'm sorry, but I really don't believe that is the way the business world, even that of the TTC, works.

There are many people throughout the world who have studied traffic flow for much longer and more rigorously than your 1.5 years and without any actual studies, numbers, tests and data, it is awfully presumptuous on your part that you have discovered a new paradigm and should be afforded a meeting with TTC brass simply because you really, really believe you have 'The Answer'.

Whether you like it or not, I believe that until you start presenting yourself as a professional (that means both presentable material and substantial content), you are not going to be dealt with in a professional manner to your liking by the TTC.

I also have a hard time believing that this subject matter could produce an innovation that is so 'outside the box' that it can not be presented in a portfolio binder and must be accompanied by 'interactive dialogue' for it to make any sense to industry experts.

I'd suggest that if your innovation requires that 'interactive dialogue' to be grasped, then perhaps the innovation needs more work and development before it is ready for prime time (not just prime time TV).

 

[Asterix]

I have been told the matter is closed. Even though I the matter realy never got opened, given that TTC does not understand, and perhaps nor do some on this message board.

I know this probably sounds harsh, but you are still missing the point.

Not only have you not provided any evidence or substance suggesting you have a new paradigm, you haven't even stated this material exists at all.

Other than the fact you say you are convinced you have 'The Answer', what is there for the TTC, this message board or anyone else to believe that you and your 1.5 years devoted to thinking about passenger flow, have discovered something that experts who have devoted years to academic study and professional practice to the subject have not?

Teenage boys easily spend 1.5 years devoted to the thought of sex. But that doesn't mean they are going to be any good or know what they are doing, no matter how earnest they are.

Passenger flow is a lot more complicated than sex and just thinking about it (passenger flow, not just sex) without actual models, studies, experiments and the like is not going to convince anyone in the industry that there is actual substance to your innovation.

The world of business (and the world of transit presumably) operates on the fact that genuine earnestness and belief in oneself is only going to help if you've got the substance to which it can be applied.

I think at this stage the only person who has the capability to "open the matter again" is you. You need to do the models, run the trials, produce the results, before doors will at all be inclined to open. Only once you have the facts, numbers and experiments to support them, put together in a professional looking package, will you get any closer to implementing this innovation.

No amount of conveying, interactive dialogue or claims of being held back by 'the man' are going to change that.

 

[ITcomputer]

she's pulling the same stunt here as she did on Dragon's Den, for those of you who haven't watched it yet, see how she responds to Kevin's question on "how do you make money". My suspicion is that she employed the same avoidance tactics in her discussions with the TTC and really provided no substantive information.

 

[kEiThZ]

Executives are extremely busy people. I've written briefing notes for ministers where I've had to explain complex policy or geopolitical issues in 2 pages. I've given briefs similarly to Generals where I've had only 10 mins on an issue I speny 6 months on. There's no way a TTC executive will give you 1 hour if you're coming with what I've seen on here, no matter how good you think your product or idea is. That's reality. You want your idea to get through? Have the glossy brochure, the data to backup your concept and be ready to explain it all in 5 mins.

 

[afransen]

Executives are extremely busy people. I've written briefing notes for ministers where I've had to explain complex policy or geopolitical issues in 2 pages. I've given briefs similarly to Generals where I've had only 10 mins on an issue I speny 6 months on. There's no way a TTC executive will give you 1 hour if you're coming with what I've seen on here, no matter how good you think your product or idea is. That's reality. You want your idea to get through? Have the glossy brochure, the data to backup your concept and be ready to explain it all in 5 mins.

I'm not sure the top brass is that busy. These kinds of things would normally be vetted by middle management before being brought to the top, anyway.

 

[kEiThZ]

When I briefed Hillier once, his aide showed me his schedule. It was in 10 min blocks and it was booked solid for 12 hours a day for weeks. I'd say that any executive who isn't working that hard isn't worth the fat paycheque. But, back to Sharon's case, my point was that they are busy people and one can't expect them to give her an hour just like that because she sent in pics of model trains and figurines.

 

[kEiThZ]

Sharon. You still have not answered my questions about your proposal.

 

[afransen]

When I briefed Hillier once, his aide showed me his schedule. It was in 10 min blocks and it was booked solid for 12 hours a day for weeks. I'd say that any executive who isn't working that hard isn't worth the fat paycheque. But, back to Sharon's case, my point was that they are busy people and one can't expect them to give her an hour just like that because she sent in pics of model trains and figurines.

I'm skeptical that someone who can only devote 10 minutes to a topic is doing a very good job. They are doing a terrible job delegating.

I guess the term 'top brass' was probably a mistake. I was referring to a corporate environment, not the military. Perhaps that the way it needs to be for a general, but I wonder if he was using his time wisely, covering 72 items per day.

 

[kEiThZ]

I've known executives at Fortune 500 companies and it wasn't all that different for them. That's just how the top job works. It does not mean they aren't well informed. Usually they are dedicating 2-3 of their daily time blocks to an issue everyday. For example, a general might have a 30 minute Afghan SITREP brief daily. It does not mean he's dedicating 10 mins to the issue. What an executive may not have a lot of time for is new info if his schedule is packed. There is no way the staff at the TTC then would allow a rambling presentation anything like what Sharon's been like here. And if the proposal comes in without data, with pics of toy trains and figurines, would the staff really want to burden their execs with it? The TTC is a billion dollar corporation with a budget bigger than some provinces and most cities. I would hope their executives are as busy as the generals and project managers I've worked for.