Sharon Yetman's Subway Safety Plan (Better barrier for subways 'an obsession')

[kEiThZ]

Sharon. If you are really confident in your idea, i suggest pitching it to the busiest transport systems in the world, like in India or China. I am sure planners in Mumbai would love to test your idea. If it works there it'll work anywhere.

 

[kEiThZ]

rbt good points. Sharon has to decide what she is. She can either be a transit enthusiast pushing an idea (a safety version of Steve Munro?) or an entrepreneur selling a passenger flow solution. She sounds like the former but expects to be taken as seriously as the latter. Hope she takes your advice to heart.

 

[andomano]

Sharon. If you are really confident in your idea, i suggest pitching it to the busiest transport systems in the world, like in India or China. I am sure planners in Mumbai would love to test your idea. If it works there it'll work anywhere.

Not everything that works there works anywhere:

 

[nfitz]

Has anyone seen anything like this in India recently? I've never observed people hanging off trains when I've been there. But on the other hand, I've never spent much time in Mumbai or Delhi. I'm wondering how old that photo is.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Has anyone seen anything like this in India recently? I've never observed people hanging off trains when I've been there. But on the other hand, I've never spent much time in Mumbai or Delhi. I'm wondering how old that photo is.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that kind of stuff can still be seen today.

I believe that that photo (and there are plenty of others like it) are pictures of pilgrims returning from Jatra, which is an important yearly Hindu pilgrimage. That's the only time that you'll see that many people on trains though (Indian does have the biggest train system in the world though, so they're always packed,) and they might have learned to increase capacity in past years.

 

[kEiThZ]

Not everything that works there works anywhere:

While trains in Mumbai are crowded, there's nothing like that in Mumbai at all. The major cities in India are just starting to build subways now and technologically, they rival anything in the west. But the high traffic on their systems is why it would be a good test of the 'subway barrier with enhanced passenger flow.' They might well be more amenable to taking a chance on Sharon than more risk-averse Western transit systems.

 

[kEiThZ]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that kind of stuff can still be seen today.

I believe that that photo (and there are plenty of others like it) are pictures of pilgrims returning from Jatra, which is an important yearly Hindu pilgrimage. That's the only time that you'll see that many people on trains though (Indian does have the biggest train system in the world though, so they're always packed,) and they might have learned to increase capacity in past years.

It's a stereotype that pisses of Indians to no end. It may happen a few times a year in the boonies but it's hardly a daily reality anywhere, let alone in an urban area. In fact, I'd say that their newer subway system are better than anything we have in Toronto.

But stereotypes like that are offensive to the majority of us from the sub-continent. The equivalent would be showing a bunch of red-necks hauling their latest hunting trophies in the back of a pick-up truck. Imagine if that was the world's image of Canada.

 

[tkip]

Confused....

While I might support her idea if it actually showed that it could improve traffic flow unto the trains and speed up service, I'm more iffy on the prevention of people jumping in front of trains though. What's to stop someone from climbing over the barriers?

Yeah, it might deter a few but these inviduals are more likely to go kill themselves somewhere else and here's something else to consider. These people want to make their suicides a public spectacle. They aren't going to go quietly in a empty room somewhere.

They want an audience. That's why they're making their deaths public.

We could argue about the motivations of this but I suspect it has something to do with trying to force people to share in their pain and introduce some misery there as well. Talk about a depressing topic. Going to have something to eat....

 

[kEiThZ]

Looking at the model you put in post #70 of this thread, I am really skeptical that it would be feasible with the amount of platform space there is, at quite a few TTC stations (especially the older ones).

And so it depends what you are targetting. While there might be space on the Bloor platform to put in your barrier, there is definitely no way you could knock off 2 feet on each side of the Yonge platform without creating some major passenger circulation issues on the platform. How does your proposal address this issue?

Next question I have is about your safety pitch. What stops an individual from getting into the loading zone and simply waiting there for the next train before jumping on to the tracks? I see nothing here that prevents that.

And finally, about dwell times. You aren't opening up the boarding and deboarding gates to the loading zone at the same time. This means that you are adding time to the flow. How can you be sure that the time you add for a passenger to now go through the barrier, on to the loading zone and into the train, will actually reduce dwell times?

 

[Second_in_pie]

Again, I have to wonder: Is it possible that PSDs will be able to increase platform capacity? I mean, how wide will the screens/doors be? I can't imagine them being any wider than the current yellow line, and barely anyone would go on the yellow line if not but for a second to weave through traffic, and nobody would go near the yellow line in a packed station. I think that putting PSDs in would mean total separation from the tunnel/tracks and the station. That means people won't be as scared/psychologically deterred from going close to the tracks. With more psychologically "safe" space for people to go in, stations could well be much less crowded.

PSDs also mean knowing where the doors will be. That means that people can line up around the door instead of milling about the platform, trying to guess where the train will be. It also lets the TTC create movement patterns around the station, either physical, by lining up doors in key areas, or psychological, by painting lines or patterns on the floor to steer people through the station, something that can't be done when you don't know where people will be coming from.

It's a stereotype that pisses of Indians to no end. It may happen a few times a year in the boonies but it's hardly a daily reality anywhere, let alone in an urban area. In fact, I'd say that their newer subway system are better than anything we have in Toronto.

Which is interesting, because people can go on about China showing off subways as a show of power, but India is a democratic country, with a much lower GDP per capita than China. It'll be interesting to see their cities and networks expand

Jut stereotypes like that are offensive to the majority of us from the sub-continent. The equivalent would be showing a bunch of red-necks hauling their latest hunting trophies in the back of a pick-up truck. Imagine if that was the world's image of Canada.

Actually, I think that's what a large part of the US sees when they think of Canada.

 

[kEiThZ]

With the new Rocket trains being pressed into service why not creat new social norms like the old "stand right, walk left" rule. How about "Enter in front, exit at rear"?

 

[andomano]

How about "Enter in front, exit at rear"?

Isn't this the motto of the surface routes?

This isn't the most feasible idea during the rush hour crunch when sometimes people at the front of the vehicle aren't able to make their way toward the rear doors.
And of course, don't forget about the people who enter at the correct door to be closest to the stairs/escalator/elevator for their stop.

 

[Fresh Start]

Sharon doesn't your "innovation" not already exist?

The idea is simple: the metal door let passengers off, opening wide as to create two side-barriers or blockages as to prevent people already waiting on the platform to try to get on. This is followed by the glass-doors parting (sliding into the metal structure) to allow boarders to get on. Please, tell me that you did your research before getting yourself embarassed on national tv?

 

[hbl33]

Sharon doesn't your "innovation" not already exist?

The idea is simple: the metal door let passengers off, opening wide as to create two side-barriers or blockages as to prevent people already waiting on the platform to try to get on. This is followed by the glass-doors parting (sliding into the metal structure) to allow boarders to get on. Please, tell me that you did your research before getting yourself embarassed on national tv?

Toronto isn't comparable to Tokyo. An apples to oranges comparison. Then again, Tokyo doesn't just have platform gates, but also "pushers" in case of rush hour services. Added with the stand-only cars (thanks to foldable seats configured for frequent services), and their passengers' safety and security ethics, it is no wonder their services are smoother and superior to T-Dot's.

 

[hbl33]

Thanks for the picture. It helps others to see other choices.

My innovation is infact is different.

It 's purpose is not necessarily intended as platform "edge" protection.

With most all "edge" platform safety you must have one of two things.

1. Automatic Train Control, We will be another 8 years for the Yonge line for that and who knows for the bloor line.

2. You need to slow your entire system down in order to do "manual braking" which is tough to do, and creates big delays, if you over shoot.

3. Oh yes, and you need uniform rolling stock.

Backing up procedures take valuable time from authorities.

My innovation further separates passenger flow for the entire platform. Especially helpful for places like Yonge and Bloor.

The whole station can be segregated with a staging method that will even accommodate singular passenger flow. The subway barrier wall with enhanced passenger flow which ever angle it is installed on the platform, if it enhances the passenger flow and servers the purpose of separating passenger flow, ultimate efficiency is achieved. Ultimate efficiency is the key goal.

I have already prepared the perfect plan for Yonge and Bloor. But once again TTC has not met with me. I not just going to blindly send a drawing to them.
They have totally missed the innovation to date. I will not provide anything unless they will treat me professionally just like they would anyone else.

Remember, tender proposals are most often stated, "But not limited to,"
In plain english, that means if you have learned or know about the possibilities of efficiency improvements, it would be within one's mandate to investigate that.

I am telling Toronto, I have the key to moving the masses and more efficiently that anyone has come up with (cost effectively too). and that must include "separated passenger flow".

I have the invention to do just that. Also equally important I have figured out all the know hows too. It's the know hows, I will not blurt out, until I am afforded a professional meeting.

I certainly am not proud if I am wrong. All I seek is the opportunity to explain myself in a professional manner. I may not have power point, but I believe I have mastered the art of passenger flow for subway platforms like no other.

Having made 15 prototypes, is certainly going to do something for you. And not just make you "crazy". The "SBWwith enhanced passenger flow" will accomplish all that is necessisary to mazimize passenger flow for high volume transfer stations.
SHaron.

Asian metro systems work like that. Similar to what you said; only no mechanical terms applied. That is how their metros are extremely efficient.
You don't even need to install a flip-flap barrier that separates the entering passengers from exiting passengers. Just have a common sense.