Seven ways to make Toronto a world-class city again

[MetroMan]

I'd argue that while we don't have Millennium Park, we have Toronto's Waterfront. Once it's done, it's going to kick Chicago's waterfront's butt around the continent.

We have a series of parks that stretches for kilometers for the entirety of the city's shore. I can't think of any other city that has that. Queens Quay is just getting started. With the promenade nearing completion, the area is going to attract a lot of attention for development of now valuable Queens Quay fronting properties that are currently laundermats and parking garages. The foot of Yonge alone holds a ton of potential and with the private investment Toronto is seeing as a result of the real estate boom that continues unabated and only seems to be getting larger and more ambitious, the best is yet to come.

 

[bobbob911]

And, as great as Millennium Park is, its really not much more than a series of open-air art exhibits, and an outdoor amphitheater (Pritzker Pavillion). The mixed-use capabilities are actually very low. Its not a park the way Grant Park is just south of it.

 

[WislaHD]

I definitely think we are doing the right steps with our waterfront thanks to WT. However, the Exhibition Grounds and Ontario Place offer an opportunity to do something special, on the scale of Millennium Park. If we were really a great city, we would be doing it.

I'll quote myself from the Ontario Place thread from a while back:

I always said that if we want to be a world-class city, than we would have to make Ontario Place a world class attraction.

It needs to be somewhere where tourists can spend the entire day there and not be bored, somewhere where Torontonians and Ontarians can spend the day or evening year-round, it needs to have events and attractions simultaneously for several demographics, it needs to have access to the now clean Lake Ontario water, it needs to have an excellent and vibrant restaurant scene and complimenting art and urban spaces, and it needs to have rapid transit (WWLRT) connecting it to downtown.

Being younger than most of you I don't remember Ontario Place the way it was in the 80s or 90s, but I spent many summers as a child there in the 2000's and I remember it being a very great time. I would love it for future generations of Torontonians/Ontarians and the many many tourists that come to Toronto to experience the same and more. To me, Ontario Place symbolizes the world class city Toronto can become.

 

[bobbob911]

For that matter, Garrison Common could be another great space if the accessibility was improved. (Admittedly, I'm not sure how that would be possible).

Millennium Park works because its also in the heart of the city. Its not the destination, its part of the destination. For the Ex/Ontario Place, it needs to be the destination because its out of the way to get to.

 

[WislaHD]

Millennium Park works because its also in the heart of the city. Its not the destination, its part of the destination. For the Ex/Ontario Place, it needs to be the destination because its out of the way to get to.

Easily solvable with the WWLRT. It would be easily accessible to those downtown.

But it is true, Ex/Ontario Place needs to be a destination in itself. The way it currently is, is not viable.

I forgot who said it (I think it may have been from the Joe Berridge talk posted earlier in this thread) but they pointed out that Toronto despite being a major global financial and business center and center for innovation, does not have a world class exhibition facility like in other cities. Maybe we should fix that if we want to be a 'world class' city.

 

[TheKingEast]

It comes down to the fact that if you want the city to look good, the city has to spend the money to do so.

I thought that was understood.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I forgot who said it (I think it may have been from the Joe Berridge talk posted earlier in this thread) but they pointed out that Toronto despite being a major global financial and business center and center for innovation, does not have a world class exhibition facility like in other cities. Maybe we should fix that if we want to be a 'world class' city.

Whoever said it definitely isn't wrong - MTCC is an absolute disgrace of a convention centre. In any case, Toronto has a rather warped perspective on beauty as a legitimate and worthwhile goal. Everyone seem to see it as a cost, which it, but never an opportunity. For example - all the complaints levelled at the amount spent on granite at Queen's Quay (i.e. the DMW crowd) or umbrellas at Sugar Beach never once considered that having a vital, beautiful public realm is actually a way of encouraging economic development.

AoD

 

[bobbob911]

Easily solvable with the WWLRT. It would be easily accessible to those downtown.

But it is true, Ex/Ontario Place needs to be a destination in itself. The way it currently is, is not viable.

I forgot who said it (I think it may have been from the Joe Berridge talk posted earlier in this thread) but they pointed out that Toronto despite being a major global financial and business center and center for innovation, does not have a world class exhibition facility like in other cities. Maybe we should fix that if we want to be a 'world class' city.

Depends on whether or not you want to try to greatly increase the "convention" business. It seems to be (and I could be wrong here), that convention cities are typically cities with great facilities *and* an abundance of relatively affordable hotel space. To me, the latter implies a city with less going for it, not more. I'm not sure Manhattan is a convention destination, for example.

 

[salsa]

I'd argue that while we don't have Millennium Park, we have Toronto's Waterfront. Once it's done, it's going to kick Chicago's waterfront's butt around the continent.

We have a series of parks that stretches for kilometers for the entirety of the city's shore. I can't think of any other city that has that. Queens Quay is just getting started. With the promenade nearing completion, the area is going to attract a lot of attention for development of now valuable Queens Quay fronting properties that are currently laundermats and parking garages. The foot of Yonge alone holds a ton of potential and with the private investment Toronto is seeing as a result of the real estate boom that continues unabated and only seems to be getting larger and more ambitious, the best is yet to come.

Doesn't Chicago have the same thing though? They have their own version of the Martin Goodman trail that's significantly longer and more seamless than in Toronto. You can even experience it on google streetview.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

salsa:

That's kind of meh - no better than our stretch between Humber River and the Ex I'd say. What Chicago excelled at was locating (superior) attractions to their waterfront. I highly, highly doubt that most of those who said that they are better at it made that determination a) beyond that basis and b) from a user perspective of said passive stretch.

AoD

 

[bobbob911]

First of all, full credit to Chicago waterfront - it is certainly wonderful. That being said, Toronto has the opportunity to significantly better that standard by integrating the waterfront as a destination (or series of destinations). Chicago waterfront, by comparison, seems relatively quiet to me (with the exception of Navy Pier)

The Toronto Islands (and the Inner Harbour) alone create an intensity and vibrancy to our waterfront that Chicago just doesn't have.

 

[salsa]

salsa:

That's kind of meh - no better than our stretch between Humber River and the Ex I'd say. What Chicago excelled at was locating (superior) attractions to their waterfront. I highly, highly doubt that most of those who said that they are better at it made that determination a) beyond that basis and b) from a user perspective of said passive stretch.

AoD

I guess it can also be said that Queens Quay (post-revitalization) is a more interesting cycling experience compared to Chicago's equivalent downtown segment, which has hardly any change in scenery from outside the downtown. They will also never beat our wonderful east-end Beach neighbourhood.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I guess it can also be said that Queens Quay (post-revitalization) is a more interesting cycling experience compared to Chicago's equivalent downtown segment, which has hardly any change in scenery from outside the downtown. They will also never beat our wonderful east-end Beach neighbourhood.

The urban structure is fundamentally different in any case - they have, for the most part, planned their waterfront to be mainly parkland interspersed with large scale public attractions/institutional uses. We have chosen, by error and design to basically industrialize our waterfront, followed by moving our renewed urban fabric all the way to the edge of the lake. The end result reflects that.

AoD

 

[Softee]

I only hear this "world class city" talk from other Torontonians.

You must not be listening very hard, because tons of other cities do it, too -- even cities that most people wouldn't question as being world class such as London and New York.

 

[salsa]

You must not be listening very hard, because tons of other cities do it, too -- even cities that most people wouldn't question as being world class such as London and New York.

And then there are cities that no normal person should consider world class by a long shot. Check out the noise coming from the city of Vaughan:

^ LOL at "vibrant city"

Vaughan is currently in the middle of an exciting and historic transformation – one that will re-brand ourselves from a suburban community into that of a world-class city.

The City continues to grow as an incubator of talent, innovation and entrepreneurship rooted in a dynamic Region with unparalleled conditions, which supports a strong knowledge-based economy and a world-class quality of life.

^If you like sitting in you car a lot then sure.

The Vaughan Metropolitan Centre will be home to 25,000 residents and will accommodate 11,000 jobs from various sectors. As the new downtown, it is already attracting world-class organizations.