September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[Kamuix]

TO grissie: Same one liner, you just reworded the paragraphs so this is a better reply for you:

You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our government released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

Since I answered your questions and addressed your points I challenge you to answer this question Grissie:

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic rather then labeling me as crazy as an excuse not to discuss the topic?

My reply to your phony reply: You quoted me, but you didn't answer the question. All you said is that there isn't much to discuss which in obviously untrue because there's a shit load of things to discuss.

If you're too narrow minded to discuss the topic than how can you be so confident in what you believe? Why are we the people loosing our freedoms Grissie? Why are living costs going up? Do you really want to just sit there and believe everything the TV tells you without question then accuse people like me of being crazy?

And yes I'm not offering anything I said as proof why would I do that? Just as you're not offering up any proof that our government and media are telling us the truth, but worse then that you won't even discuss anything.

 

[Kamuix]

Ah, so you're finally admitting a lack of evidence. So what makes your position without evidence any more compelling than the mainstream media's position which has evidence (albeit evidence which you don't accept)?

What are you talking about? I never offered what I said as evidence to begin with and what you just said kind of tells me that you might consider mainstream media information to be more evidential just because it's mainstream. Our media is owned by corporate interests and i can't help but think you're somewhat in denial about even the possibility of that. open your eyes and take a look around you, do you really think these big corporations are loving and honest? they pay lobbyists to take out their competitors through the law it's happening all of the time. Why do you think all the small businesses are dying and being restricted while big corporations get bigger and richer? can you at least admit that that's happening?

If the event was staged (staged means it didn't really happen) where are the towers? They're not there. If you are using the term staged in an incorrect way, i.e., that it wasn't only planes that brought down the towers, who is to say who planted any extra explosives? If extra explosives were used, they could well have been put in place by terrorists. There is no proof that explosives were used by the way, but I'm just giving you a "what if".

No there was only explosive residue found in the dust of all the towers and the real terrorists are our politicians and big corporations but they know how to keep the population blind towards that. I mean common and if I really used the wrong term then let's call it a False Flag attack.

I didn't use YouTube in a disparaging way. Documentaries can be done on YouTube -- it's simply a medium. You assumed that I have a negative view of YouTube -- which is a problem you seem to have, i.e., always interpreting things negatively where no negative inference was intended. That's a sign of paranoia.

Well no i didn't assume you had a negative view of youtube but when you were discrediting me you said "your YouTubes are not convincing me" which kind of implies something like that. You could have referred to it as a documentary or something. And common you're going to use that and say oh it's a sign of paranoia therefor you're likely just paranoid about the whole thing? seriously..

And no, I haven't watched Loose Change, because after watching the first batch of links you posted, I gave up because it was all the same paranoid listing of far-fetched coincidences that a few people cobbled together in an attempt to come up with a complex and unrealistic conspiracy theory.

Now you're just labeling it as far-fetched to avoid opening your mind to the possibility? Is that not what you're telling me? I get how it can seem far-fetched when you've been brought up to think a certain way etc. but don't let that get in the way I wouldn't close your mind to it just because it may seem far fetched.

See now we're having a discussion.. I like that, you're not just shooting me down(for the most part) with a one liner like Grissie keeps doing over and over and over..

EDIT: Staged has a bunch definitions and one of them is an act or a performance but that's irrelevant because It's not like anyone ever claimed that the towers didn't fall or that planes didn't hit it.

 

[PinkLucy]

Actually people HAVE claimed that the entire thing was staged and never happened.

I called them "your YouTubes" because you provided YouTube links. Plain and simple. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

I didn't say that I preferred mainstream evidence, simply that the mainstream has evidence (video, eyewitness reports) whereas your documentaries and theorists have none, which you admitted. Again, you make mountains out of molehills and infer things that were never implied.

 

[Kamuix]

@#1: I don't know of anyone who claims that It didn't happen and that the world trade centers 1 and 2 are still there so i'm not sure where that comes from.

@#2: Well whatever I'm sorry I was just pointing out that when you sentence it like that it kind of seems like you're trying to further just trying to make me look bad or something, let's just discuss!

@#3: The mainstream has evidence? Are you referring to the official 9/11 commission report? Why did the FBI confiscate all the cameras that were facing the pentagon and why were people who saw something that differs from the official story re-portably threatened by the FBI to not talk about what they saw?

I notice you keep trying to attack me over things so it's kind of like a half attack/discussion but let's just talk about it without the attacking and trying to make it seem like I'm being manipulative. It avoids the discussion.

I'm not talking in a way to purposely make you look false but Grissie has been doing it the whole time but don't go down that road.

But let's back up for a minute and say this: let's say hypothetically if you're right and I am wither paranoid and/or crazy, do you really think there would be this huge group of over a million people claiming that 9/11 was an inside job? do you really think Alex Jones would have millions of listeners on his radio show? so what's going on in your mind then? is there this crazy growing fringe of weird paranoid people out to accuse our government of being criminal?

But if our government is innocent in general then why is the cost of living going up? why are small businesses being weaned out and big corporations are getting richer and our economy is crashing while in the corporate media we are being told everything is alright? I could go on forever about this but.. let's just discuss it. It just seems like you're trying to find ways to make me look like I'm the one being manipulative rather then focusing on the discussion.

 

[PinkLucy]

Kamuix, you need to work on your comprehension skills.

A. I wasn't attacking. Are you feeling defensive?

B. Where is your evidence that over a million people claim 9/11 was an inside job? And so what if they do? Where is their evidence? And do I think it's plausible that so many people would believe something? Oh absolutely ... kool-aid is powerful stuff.

C. I never once said the government is innocent, in general or in specific. And for the record, cost of living has always gone up. That's hardly news.

D. As for mainstream evidence -- video, eyewitness reports. Note you said (well, to be fair, you meant) that people were REPORTEDLY threatened. No proof that they were. I have no idea if or why the FBI confiscated cameras, but I'm sure they would say it was in the interests of "national security" just like things have been kept "top secret" for years.

 

[gristle]

TO grissie: Same one liner, you just reworded the paragraphs so this is a better reply for you:

You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our government released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

Kamuix, I've provided the same response because you keep posting the same bolded, underlined text. As I have noted time after time, I want evidence that is verifiable. I want your definition of what the conspiracy is, the key players, the evidence to back up the accusations and physical evidence and corroborating facts that directly show a government conspiracy. That has nothing to do with the government. You are the one fixated on the government. Your repetition indicates closed-minded thinking - particularly when you refuse to understand such a simple request.

Since I answered your questions and addressed your points I challenge you to answer this question Grissie:

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic rather then labeling me as crazy as an excuse not to discuss the topic?

Actually, you've addressed nothing Kamuix. I have asked your for evidence. You provided nothing. There is no information to support your accusation of a government conspiracy because you have failed to provide anything worthwhile to discuss. What you want is for everyone to play along in your irrational musings about whatever comes into your head about whatever suspicion or fear that bothers you.

By the way, I have not called you crazy, that's how you have labeled yourself Kamuix. I called you paranoid and irrational because you believe in conspiracies that you can't prove. In fact, you believe in conspiracies you can't even properly define. You've admitted that you have no evidence. You don't even have a conceptual framework upon which to hang evidence together into some cohesive description, but as noted by you, there is no evidence to be expected from you. You are a mere cipher on the subject Kamuix.

And yes I'm not offering anything I said as proof why would I do that?

As you have no evidence, you have no substance to support your claims. You just want people to comment on your mental musings, and then complain when they refuse to. Poor thing. You just want to be the centre of attention. You want to feel special because you think you possess special knowledge and special insight. The fact is that you have neither. You have your paranoid musings about a conspiracy you can't even define never mind prove. That's sad Kamuix.

 

[Dan416]

If it was up to me, I wouldn't just lock the thread, I'd delete it ^_^

 

[admc]

Ummm...what kind of thread is this?!

 

[GenerationW]

Ummm...what kind of thread is this?!

The kind that you should run away from.

 

[Kamuix]

It's normally just harder to discuss this with someone who has such a lower state of consciousness then me but in this case It seems impossible.. Griss

That's just since If you can try and twist my logic to the point where it alludes almost turned around on me AND stay in denial at the same time.

Having talked this long one thing about Griss that I admire is how he always comes back for a reply even though his posts are narrow minded and manipulative and don't really discuss and/or address anything at all.

If i were to guess i'd say there's a good chance it could be your higher consciousness that brings you back though.

A. I wasn't attacking. Are you feeling defensive?

Not at all!

B. Where is your evidence that over a million people claim 9/11 was an inside job? And so what if they do? Where is their evidence? And do I think it's plausible that so many people would believe something? Oh absolutely ... kool-aid is powerful stuff.

They're are at-least a million people common. there's a "we are change" group for every state where people organize information and protests and different ways of trying to get the publics attention on issues regarding 9/11 and other government corruption. Common the only reason you ever doubted the evil "conspiracy theorists" is because the mainstream corporate controlled media rarely reports on anything other then what's in the best interests of those who are at the top.

A. I wasn't attacking. Are you feeling defensive?

Not at all!

B. Where is your evidence that over a million people claim 9/11 was an inside job? And so what if they do? Where is their evidence? And do I think it's plausible that so many people would believe something? Oh absolutely ... kool-aid is powerful stuff.

They're are at-least a million people common. there's a "we are change" group for every state and most provinces in Canada where people organize information and protests and different ways of trying to get the publics attention on issues regarding 9/11 and other government corruption. Common the only reason you ever doubted the evil "conspiracy theorists" is because the mainstream corporate controlled media rarely reports on anything other then what's in the best interests of those who are at the top.

C. I never once said the government is innocent, in general or in specific. And for the record, cost of living has always gone up. That's hardly news.

Yea and corporations have been in control for longer than our lifetime although it wasn't as bad then as it is now obviously..

D. As for mainstream evidence -- video, eyewitness reports. Note you said (well, to be fair, you meant) that people were REPORTEDLY threatened. No proof that they were. I have no idea if or why the FBI confiscated cameras, but I'm sure they would say it was in the interests of "national security" just like things have been kept "top secret" for years.

Haha video and eyewitness reports of what? that's proof to you? where's the evidence Lucy? Not only that but what eyewitness reports would prove that our government couldn't possibly be involved or that their wasn't explosives and that everything reported to us by our controlled media is generally true?

But completely basing that on me not having evidence makes no sense because not only does it work both ways.. they're are many eyewitness reports of bombs going off inside but that doesn't matter because the media came to a different conclusion?

Just don't be too quick to buy into the media it's not even our media it's the corporates media please use the internet while we still have the freedom of the Internet because if not for it then I might be as deceived as you.

TO grissie: Same one liner, you just reworded the paragraphs so this is a better reply for you:

You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our politicians released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

Since I answered your questions and addressed your points I challenge you to answer this question Grissie:

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic rather then labeling me as crazy as an excuse not to discuss the topic?

My reply to your phony reply: You quoted me, but you didn't answer the question. All you said is that there isn't much to discuss which in obviously untrue because there's a shit load of things to discuss.

If you're too narrow minded to discuss the topic than how can you be so confident in what you believe? Why are we the people loosing our freedoms Grissie? Why are living costs going up? Do you really want to just sit there and believe everything the TV tells you without question then accuse people like me of being crazy?

 

[gristle]

You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our government released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

Since I answered your questions and addressed your points I challenge you to answer this question Grissie:

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic rather then labeling me as crazy as an excuse not to discuss the topic?

My reply to your phony reply: You quoted me, but you didn't answer the question. All you said is that there isn't much to discuss which in obviously untrue because there's a shit load of things to discuss.

If you're too narrow minded to discuss the topic than how can you be so confident in what you believe? Why are we the people loosing our freedoms Grissie? Why are living costs going up? Do you really want to just sit there and believe everything the TV tells you without question then accuse people like me of being crazy?

And yes I'm not offering anything I said as proof why would I do that? Just as you're not offering up any proof that our government and media are telling us the truth, but worse then that you won't even discuss anything.

Kamuix, I'm challenging you to produce verifiable evidence. That you confuse this evidence with the government indicates just how shallow your thinking is. What you want is to go on about what you believe, and frankly I don't care about what you believe. That's why I am continuously challenging to produce some tangible verifiable evidence. This isn't some 9/11 conspiracy circle-jerk where you get to spurt out whatever comes into your head. Start producing verifiable evidence or shut up. And if still have not figured out what that means, go and finally learn something.

 

[Kamuix]

You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our government released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

Since I answered your questions and addressed your points I challenge you to answer this question Grissie:

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic rather then labeling me as crazy as an excuse not to discuss the topic?

My reply to your phony reply: You quoted me, but you didn't answer the question. All you said is that there isn't much to discuss which in obviously untrue because there's a shit load of things to discuss.

If you're too narrow minded to discuss the topic than how can you be so confident in what you believe? Why are we the people loosing our freedoms Grissie? Why are living costs going up? Do you really want to just sit there and believe everything the TV tells you without question then accuse people like me of being crazy?

And yes I'm not offering anything I said as proof why would I do that? Just as you're not offering up any proof that our government and media are telling us the truth, but worse then that you won't even discuss anything. Either shut up or stop being Narrow minded.

 

[gristle]

It's normally just harder to discuss this with someone who has such a lower state of consciousness then me but in this case It seems impossible.. Griss

That's just since If you can try and twist my logic to the point where it alludes almost turned around on me AND stay in denial at the same time.

Having talked this long one thing about Griss that I admire is how he always comes back for a reply even though his posts are narrow minded and manipulative and don't really discuss and/or address anything at all.

It's not "then me" Kamuix. It's "than me." All this appearing in a sentence where you accuse others of having a lower state of consciousness.

Anyway, going beyond your poor writing skills, you actually don't have any logic to twist Kamuix. You've spent page after page avoiding my request for you to provide verifiable evidence. The silly dodges, the incapacity to comprehend what verifiable evidence is, and the final admission that you actually have none all ends up with you just wanting to talk about your personal conspiracy beliefs. Really, who cares what you think? That's why I keep challenging you to put forward real hard evidence. That might actually be interesting. Sadly, it's clear that you that you consider your beliefs to be unassailable, but they are not evidence of anything other than the fact that you harbour many paranoid thoughts. You accuse others of being narrow-minded while at the same time never admitting that all you have are your imaginings, and absolutely nothing tangible to back them up. Of course, the solution to all of this is to start producing the hard, verifiable evidence that I have challenged you to start posting time after time after time. Start showing the actual existence of a conspiracy (which would actually require the exercise of logic on your part). I really don't care if you are too lazy, too ignorant or to afraid to even try, but I will keep challenging you to start producing evidence to support your claims. Otherwise kamuix, all you have are some thoughts and nothing more. Zero. Nada.

Get to the actual evidence Kamuix. I'm challenging you.

 

[Kamuix]

It's not "then me" Kamuix. It's "than me." All this appearing in a sentence where you accuse others of having a lower state of consciousness.

Haha a stupid little spelling mistake. Good job I like how you try and use that to discredit me...

you actually don't have any logic to twist Kamuix.

I've caught you twisting my logic over and over again and now you're telling me that I have no logic to twist like what the hell are you on? that's just more manipulation you damned fool! have you any depth in your mind? so if i'm the crazy one then why do you keep twisting and manipulating my logic?

You've spent page after page avoiding my request for you to provide verifiable evidence. The silly dodges, the incapacity to comprehend what verifiable evidence is

And once again you manipulate and twist my logic by turning the 'avoiding my request ' argument against me when you constantly avoid my questions and points!!

Speaking of avoiding my questions, address this because i've asked this question many times already:

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic rather then labeling me as crazy as an excuse not to discuss the topic?

Address this:

You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our government released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

Since I answered your questions and addressed your points I challenge you to answer this question Grissie:

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic rather then labeling me as crazy as an excuse not to discuss the topic?

My reply to your phony reply: You quoted me, but you didn't answer the question. All you said is that there isn't much to discuss which in obviously untrue because there's a shit load of things to discuss.

If you're too narrow minded to discuss the topic than how can you be so confident in what you believe? Why are we the people loosing our freedoms Grissie? Why are living costs going up? Do you really want to just sit there and believe everything the TV tells you without question then accuse people like me of being crazy?

And yes I'm not offering anything I said as proof why would I do that? Just as you're not offering up any proof that our government and media are telling us the truth, but worse then that you won't even discuss anything. Either shut up or stop being Narrow minded.

It's YOU who doesn't get it.

 

[gristle]

Haha a stupid little spelling mistake. Good job I like how you try and use that to discredit me...

You discredit yourself.

I've caught you twisting my logic over and over again and now you're telling me that I have no logic to twist like what the hell are you on? that's just more manipulation you damned fool! have you any depth in your mind? so if i'm the crazy one then why do you keep twisting and manipulating my logic?

To repeat, you have presented nothing logical. You have stated a belief in an array of conspiracies and failed to support any of them with actual verifiable evidence. The best you can do (and its pretty damn flaccid) is to reference other conspiracy-believer youtube clips. You have nothing logical to twist. Otherwise spare me the grunting anger and start looking for some real evidence to present here. Does that challenge scare you Kamuix?

Address this:

I've addressed this a number of times. The problem is with you. You have an enormous amount of difficulty making distinctions. I am challenging you to start producing verifiable evidence to support your claims of a government conspiracy regarding the events of 9/11. I want you to present your case, including timelines, key players, rationales - all the things that show the existence of an actual conspiracy. Somewhere within the fog of your mind, this registers as "government" for you, the focus of paranoia in your life.

Since I answered your questions and addressed your points I challenge you to answer this question Grissie:

You haven't answered anything - including my challenge for you to produce evidence to back up your conspiracy claims. Get to it Kamuix.

Why are you unable to actually discuss the topic...

Because you have consistently failed to present evidence to support your claims. That would be substance. Your fantasies regarding rampant conspiracy beliefs is just silliness.

My reply to your phony reply: You quoted me, but you didn't answer the question. All you said is that there isn't much to discuss which in obviously untrue because there's a shit load of things to discuss.

Interesting that you would characterize everything you have presented here as a "shit load." There you and I can agree. All you have presented is a load of shit. You have failed to provide any actual evidence to support your claims. That is necessary to backing up an assertion of a conspiracy. So how about you get to presenting the verifiable evidence Kamuix. Oh, that's right. You have none. You don't know what that is. Forty pages later in this thread and it's still a big mystery to you.

If you're too narrow minded to discuss the topic than how can you be so confident in what you believe? Why are we the people loosing our freedoms Grissie? Why are living costs going up? Do you really want to just sit there and believe everything the TV tells you without question then accuse people like me of being crazy?

I haven't presented anything. I've asked you to produce evidence to support your conspiracy claims. I've challenged you to do this over and over again. If you feel it necessary that you must counter other opinions from, for example, the news media, then its time for you to present your case with evidence. If you want to show that a conspiracy exists, then you need to start producing the verifiable supporting facts. Your opinions are just that - opinions - and nothing more. Do you expect people to automatically believe whatever drivel you spout on about? Think again Kamuix.

And yes I'm not offering anything I said as proof why would I do that? Just as you're not offering up any proof that our government and media are telling us the truth, but worse then that you won't even discuss anything. Either shut up or stop being Narrow minded.

Of course nothing you have said is proof. That's why forty pages have gone by with me challenging you to back up your claims with verifiable evidence, and you unable to admit that you can't. Do you think your unsupported thoughts and unsubstantiated paranoid beliefs are worthy of something? Think again Kamuix. The burden of proof lies with you. Your ramblings are wasted keystrokes.

And by the way, I won't shut up.

It's YOU who doesn't get it.

You've provided nothing substantive to "get" - other than you are paranoid and believe in a bunch of conspiracies. Anybody can get that.

How about the evidence Kamuix. When are you going to start producing it? The challenge still stands.