Scramble Crossings (City of Toronto) (Yonge/Dundas, Yonge/Bloor, Bay/Bloor)

[gweed123]

And those who ride GO trains.

While go is POP, sometimes it doesn't really feel like it. Even if you have ride tickets, you still need to punch them before getting on the train. It's not like local transit POP, where all you need to do is flash your card if asked.

And yes nfitz, a lot of people still don't really get the concept of POP on the Queen streetcar route. Even those who board after transferring from the subway, they do so through the front doors, because that's what they think they're supposed to do. The Queen streetcar isn't exactly the poster child for POP efficiency.

 

[junctionist]

Judging by some of the rude comments I've had after entering through the back door of a 501 ALRV, even some of those that ride the Queen streetcar don't understand POP. Though how many years has it been since anyone has seen a ticket inspector on that route.

People on the TTC often seem so detached, even if someone is doing something annoying or wrong. I'm surprised people confronted you. Did you educate them?

 

[gweed123]

People on the TTC often seem so detached, even if someone is doing something annoying or wrong. I'm surprised people confronted you. Did you educate them?

*looks out of the corner of his eye, then looks back down at his iPhone and pretends he didn't see anything*

 

[CDL.TO]

While go is POP, sometimes it doesn't really feel like it. Even if you have ride tickets, you still need to punch them before getting on the train. It's not like local transit POP, where all you need to do is flash your card if asked.

Punching your ticket is standard on POP systems. Every POP system I have ever used in Europe has required you to punch your ticket if you're using one (and have your pass on you if that's what you're using). It's like saying the 501 is not POP because you have to put your token in the farebox.

 

[MindMe]

Judging by some of the rude comments I've had after entering through the back door of a 501 ALRV, even some of those that ride the Queen streetcar don't understand POP. Though how many years has it been since anyone has seen a ticket inspector on that route.

Wow really people don't grok the POP on the Queen street car? And they actually get all indignant? I don't ride POP routes often but since 1991 I've seen three.

 

[nfitz]

Well Toronto is Toronto ... the comments came from people I knew ... but regular (though probably not daily) 501 users.

 

[valkoholic]

These crossings are kind of cool (I like the looks on peoples faces when they cross diagonally, a lot of people smile when they do it), but they're not the best for surface transit due to the big increase in intersection delay. I think Yonge Eglinton should wait until the LRT is in, because right now it's full of busses travelling to and from the east.

 

[gweed123]

These crossings are kind of cool (I like the looks on peoples faces when they cross diagonally, a lot of people smile when they do it), but they're not the best for surface transit due to the big increase in intersection delay. I think Yonge Eglinton should wait until the LRT is in, because right now it's full of busses travelling to and from the east.

That's a good point. Once the majority of surface transit is off Eglinton (the only buses that should still use Eglinton Stn are the Lawrence East buses, and a handful of other local routes), it would be much less of a hastle to implement a scramble.

 

[cyruskafaiwu]

I like the idea of scramble crossings. I visit toronto at least once every 2 weeks. But, does anyone even use them? All I see is just everyone going straight.

 

[nfitz]

I must confess I don't see the point of the Bay/Dundas crossing. Unless you arrive at exactly the right time, you can only cross north/south or east/west. And then at the end of the north/south phase, it instantly goes to scramble, but the pedestrian hand goes yellow and red first ... which seems absolutely unnecessary.

When I've seen scramble crossings implemented elsewhere, there are 3 phases. Cars east/west ... Cars north/south ... Scramble for Pedestrians .... Cars ...

The whole idea is that pedestrians can't cross EXCEPT on the scramble, and then cars can do right turns without getting blocked by pedestrians.

As Bay/Dundas doesn't allow right-hand turns in any direction (on either red or green), the whole point of the scramble, and the implementation, seems a waste ... and surely only serves to delay the Dundas streetcar even more.

 

[rbt]

I must confess I don't see the point of the Bay/Dundas crossing. Unless you arrive at exactly the right time, you can only cross north/south or east/west. And then at the end of the north/south phase, it instantly goes to scramble, but the pedestrian hand goes yellow and red first ... which seems absolutely unnecessary.

The issue being resolved with the scrambles is pedestrian buildup on the corners causing sever congestion and (for Yonge/Dundas) pedestrians being pushed into the street. Or, that's how it was described to Lastman's crew when work on these things began.

I'm not sure Bay/Dundas had that issue but Yonge/Bloor did in the south-west corner. The alternative of widening the sidewalks seemed to be less patiable.

 

[unimaginative2]

I must confess I don't see the point of the Bay/Dundas crossing. Unless you arrive at exactly the right time, you can only cross north/south or east/west. And then at the end of the north/south phase, it instantly goes to scramble, but the pedestrian hand goes yellow and red first ... which seems absolutely unnecessary.

When I've seen scramble crossings implemented elsewhere, there are 3 phases. Cars east/west ... Cars north/south ... Scramble for Pedestrians .... Cars ...

The whole idea is that pedestrians can't cross EXCEPT on the scramble, and then cars can do right turns without getting blocked by pedestrians.

As Bay/Dundas doesn't allow right-hand turns in any direction (on either red or green), the whole point of the scramble, and the implementation, seems a waste ... and surely only serves to delay the Dundas streetcar even more.

Exactly! I completely agree.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Still waiting for the Bay/Front scramble crossing. I would have put that intersection on the list.

Isn't Bay/Front the busiest pedestrian intersection because of Union Station. There is a study report back in July 2010, but will the new city council do it? See this link for the PDF.

 

[TO City of Light]

It looks like a handful of scramble crossings are now an accepted part of Toronto pedestrian life.

Interesting to look at a "serious" scramble crossing - at Shibuya in Tokyo with up to 2,500 crossings per cycle. Impressive.

[video=youtube;QXtOdSgf6Ic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXtOdSgf6Ic&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/video]

 

[doady]

It looks like a handful of scramble crossings are now an accepted part of Toronto pedestrian life.

Until the Fords and their puppets get rid of them of course.