Scramble Crossings (City of Toronto) (Yonge/Dundas, Yonge/Bloor, Bay/Bloor)

[ShonTron]

In the past 10 years, not one person has been killed at these intersections in a traffic-related injury.

 

[marcus_a_j]

Huh?

My response was to this:

A month before it opens? That could kill someone!

who responded to this:

I expected pavement markings/paint.

...and Shontron answered

 

[CDL.TO]

But why would markings at Yonge and Bloor have any bearing to possible scramble crossing markings? Scramble crossing markings will include a diagonal crosswalk, and having such markings when it is not yet permissible to use them (particularly when it's a new, heavily promoted change) could cause some confusion.

 

[marcus_a_j]

Because the Yonge and Bloor intersection has diagonal markings. They are faded, but are yellow and supposed to indicate to traffic to not block the intersection

 

[CDL.TO]

Because the Yonge and Bloor intersection has diagonal markings. They are faded, but are yellow and supposed to indicate to traffic to not block the intersection

Sure, markings. But not crosswalk markings which is what Yonge and Dundas will get. The city has a legal responsibility to ensure signage and road markings are accurate. A simple yellow line pained down the middle of a one-way street could spell disaster.

I still fail to see what Yonge and Bloor has to do with the planned scramble crossing at Yonge and Dundas.

 

[marcus_a_j]

Sure, markings. But not crosswalk markings which is what Yonge and Dundas will get. The city has a legal responsibility to ensure signage and road markings are accurate. A simple yellow line pained down the middle of a one-way street could spell disaster.

I still fail to see what Yonge and Bloor has to do with the planned scramble crossing at Yonge and Dundas.

I don't know exactly how the crosswalk markings will look like, but my assumption was what Yonge-Bloor has.

Dec. 2006

The Y-B connection to the Y-D scramble crossing that I made was in reference to Coruscanti's post stating "I was expecting pavement markings/paint", which is what, essentially, Y-B has.

 

[CDL.TO]

I would expect something resembling this (and so does Coruscanti, I presume):

http://picasaweb.google.com/Surge89/JapanTrip2008Part1/photo#5205742748877059970

As you can see, the design invites pedestrians to cross diagonally, but the Y+B design does not.

 

[adma]

The Y+B design is a "don't block the box" gesture. As is Bay & Richmond. And speaking of Bay & Richmond...

 

[Dan416]

I don't know exactly how the crosswalk markings will look like, but my assumption was what Yonge-Bloor has.

Dec. 2006

The Y-B connection to the Y-D scramble crossing that I made was in reference to Coruscanti's post stating "I was expecting pavement markings/paint", which is what, essentially, Y-B has.

This is actually what I was thinking of, just because it is a local example I suppose. But I certainly expect SOMETHING on the roadway.

 

[khris]

The yellow lines represent something completely different. I would not expect it to look like that.

 

[Le Gique]

More Scramble Crosswalks for LA

http://laist.com/2008/08/06/more_scramble_crosswalks_for_la.php

 

[khris]

When are we going to be getting the rest of the scramble intersections implemented?

 

[nfitz]

I stood at the corner of Dundas and Yonge waiting for a streetcar for a while the other day. I'm not sure I'm really sold on how this has been implemented.

Most of the pedestrians are crossing the normal way. Unless someone arrives at the light just before the scramble, they've already crossed one direction before the scramble.

In other locations where I've seen scramble crossings, it is the only crossing phase. You don't have the phases for both north-south and east-west crossing.

Also just before you start the scramble phase, the pedestrians that are crossing already, get a yellow countdown and a red, before the crossing light suddenly goes green again. It seems to me that this light should stay white.

In addition I'm concerned the reduced time for vehicle traffic is going to create delays for the Dundas streetcar.

Seems to me that a scramble crossing would make more sense in a location where there are cars making turns at the intersection (which is generally prohibited at Dundas/Yonge). And then there would be a single scramble phase, followed by car-only east-west and north-south phases.

 

[somody]

I stood at the corner of Dundas and Yonge waiting for a streetcar for a while the other day. I'm not sure I'm really sold on how this has been implemented.

Most of the pedestrians are crossing the normal way. Unless someone arrives at the light just before the scramble, they've already crossed one direction before the scramble.

In other locations where I've seen scramble crossings, it is the only crossing phase. You don't have the phases for both north-south and east-west crossing.

Also just before you start the scramble phase, the pedestrians that are crossing already, get a yellow countdown and a red, before the crossing light suddenly goes green again. It seems to me that this light should stay white.

In addition I'm concerned the reduced time for vehicle traffic is going to create delays for the Dundas streetcar.

Seems to me that a scramble crossing would make more sense in a location where there are cars making turns at the intersection (which is generally prohibited at Dundas/Yonge). And then there would be a single scramble phase, followed by car-only east-west and north-south phases.

Yup...what you just described is how it's done in London at virtually every intersection. Toronto tries and fails yet again.

 

[taal]

Not true.

It's a different situation here. They don't want cars turning on to Yonge from Dundas ... I think that's simply a traffic flow issue and not related to endangering pedestrians. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

If the above is the case then letting people cross while cars are going doesn't hurt anyone ... because the cars can't turn anyway.