saveoursubways (SOS)

[Dan416]

would it make sense to realign the SRT (if made a subway) and change station locations?

i'd like to see a map with your proposals, location of lines and stations regarding sheppard line and RT conversion so i can get a better idea of improvement ideas for that area.

also, please advocate extending the sheppard line west to meet up with the spadina line.

SOS supports expansion on ALL subway lines. Includinng Sheppard west to Downsview. I've mentioned my own personal support for a Downsview to Scarborough Centre Sheppard line in a few threads.

Alignment for the Danforth extension would have to be different than the SRT. I imagine it would just be a straight diagonal line from Kennedy to STC. Just a couple stations between Kennedy and STC. Obviously that would be part of an EA. Our advocacy is for the extension of the line, not a particular alignment (although in this case I don't think there's much choice, as rejigging the SRT itself for subway isn't feasible).

 

[kEiThZ]

would it make sense to realign the SRT (if made a subway) and change station locations?

i'd like to see a map with your proposals, location of lines and stations regarding sheppard line and RT conversion so i can get a better idea of improvement ideas for that area. a google maps or google earth overlay would be nice.

also, please advocate extending the sheppard line west to meet up with the spadina line.

We're working on a map and talking points/briefing notes. It'll take a bit cause we all have day jobs.

But for a subway extension I'd prefer the Danforth routing with a stop at Lawrence East and at STC. Then a Transit City style LRT (Gasp! He's not anti-LRT after all!) on Progress till Malvern. They can use the Hydro corridor as planned north of Sheppard. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars on grade separation for the SRT extension is ridiculous. It's not required. A quick drive down Progress would prove that to anybody.

ps. The extension to Downsview is a must for Sheppard to be a true crosstown route.

 

[Justin10000]

But there is always something better. The Transit City plan is the most significant plan in ages with funding but it seems to create more demands from people than having no plan at all ever did. I think that is why Chretien was such a successful Prime Minister. He had no plans and did nothing and nobody gets up in arms about nothing. Doing something seems to lead to people wanting more. Had nobody built the Sheppard subway there would probably be very few caring about a subway on Sheppard.

That is true. Would there be demands for a subway if TC wasn't announced? Probably not. Makes me wonder when the Sheppard LRT is built, will people still demand a subway, or move on to another corridor and demand a subway there?

 

[Chuck]

Very join worthy group. I believe that the point is that a city as large and transit friendly as Toronto should not have to rely on streetcars as the backbone of the transit system. It just won't work.

Every morning when I cram onto the subway (or wait on the platform because the train is full) I can't help but sarcastically think how nice it is that we're building streetcar lines to fix this mess.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Now I'm not saying LRT is second-class. I like taking the streetcar in Europe, I also like taking the metro. But LRT should implemented on lines where it makes sense. LRT isn't meant to be the backbone of a network in a city like Toronto. We have our backbone, it's the subway. And the subway isn't going anywhere. But the only subway expansion plans are ones put forth by York Region. We need an aggressive subway expansion strategy to see this city into the 22nd century. Especially after 40 years of falling behind on the subway front.

that's a good analogy. sort of like and internet backbone. LRT in the wrong areas is like using the wrong type of cables, cables with lower bandwidth.

 

[kEiThZ]

The B-D extension question is an interesting one. I think most of the alignments only have 2-3 stops. As it stands, Ellesmere, Midland and McCowan are all minutes from STC by bus and could have their ridership consolidated there. The time saved from the transfer would easily compensate the extra few minutes spent on the bus.

 

[Dan416]

That is true. Would there be demands for a subway if TC wasn't announced? Probably not. Makes me wonder when the Sheppard LRT is built, will people still demand a subway, or move on to another corridor and demand a subway there?

There have been calls for Sheppard to be finished for years. Just because you didn't hear them, didn't mean they weren't there. You think people were happy when Harris cut Sheppard in half (how far was it originally funded to go? anyone?).

If Sheppard hadn't been built as subway, who knows if we'd be demanding a subway now. We'd probably look at all the options. But the past is past. We have a subway. We either extend it, or we don't. And since the Sheppard is a success, it makes to extend it.

As for demanding subway on another corridor, SOS believes in extending ALL lines.

Very join worthy group. I believe that the point is that a city as large and transit friendly as Toronto should not have to rely on streetcars as the backbone of the transit system. It just won't work.

Every morning when I cram onto the subway (or wait on the platform because the train is full) I can't help but sarcastically think how nice it is that we're building streetcar lines to fix this mess.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Invited you to join the group.

 

[EnviroTO]

We ARE pro transit. We're not anti-LRT. We have all said that we support LRT on LRT-appropriate corridors (Hamilton, Hurontario, Finch)

Why are these corridors so different?

 

[kEiThZ]

But there is always something better. The Transit City plan is the most significant plan in ages with funding but it seems to create more demands from people than having no plan at all ever did. I think that is why Chretien was such a successful Prime Minister. He had no plans and did nothing and nobody gets up in arms about nothing. Doing something seems to lead to people wanting more.

The RTES study had great ideas. Miller trashed it and launched TC which would have flopped as well had we not had such a transit friendly premier. I find it remarkable that Miller gets all the credit when the real hero here is Dalton McGuinty. If we had a different mayor, the city would have simply used RTES as the core of its proposal and Metrolinx would have funded that.

Had nobody built the Sheppard subway there would probably be very few caring about a subway on Sheppard.

It should have been built on Finch maybe. But we are where we are and Sheppard has started to develop as a high density corridor with subway in place.

Keep in mind though, that isn't only about Sheppard. The SRT fight is just as important. I haven't met a Scarberian yet who has great things to say about transferring at Kennedy. Even if they make the transfer easier, it'll still seem ridiculous to most Scarberians that they have to transfer at Kennedy and stop at ghost stations like Midland and Ellesmere.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why are these corridors so different?

The point of Sheppard isn't just the corridor. That subway is meant to provide cross-town service and connect to important nodes of the city. If it was meant to merely provide local service, even LRT wouldn't be needed, curbside bus lanes would be fine.

 

[EnviroTO]

The point of Sheppard isn't just the corridor. That subway is meant to provide cross-town service and connect to important nodes of the city. If it was meant to merely provide local service, even LRT wouldn't be needed, curbside bus lanes would be fine.

Wouldn't a hydro corridor or 401 busway run by GO provide that service better?

 

[doady]

Why are these corridors so different?

One of them has 3-4 times the transit ridership as the other two?

 

[Inkarnate]

The DRL east...if it were to go up Pape/Overlea/Don Mills, would it terminate at Eglinton, Sheppard, or Steeles? I would think it'd be Sheppard but I'm not too sure.

 

[kEiThZ]

Wouldn't a hydro corridor or 401 busway run by GO provide that service better?

Buses wouldn't be sufficient or quick enough. And the hydro corridor is too far too the north to be effective....though I suppose it would be a good place to stick the Finch LRT.

 

[EnviroTO]

One of them has 3-4 times the transit ridership as the other two?

True, but nowhere near what would require a subway for all three.