urbandreamer
recession proof
I find that NYC comparison amusing. Of all the NA cities I've visited, Seattle is most similar to Toronto imho.
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Rocco Rossi wants subways too!
- Thread starter LowerBay
- Start date
Electrify
Senior Member
Please watch the videos in this thread:
http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?12557-Videos-of-Light-Rail-RAPID-Transit
Because of current stop spacing, it is unlikely most of the SELRT will achieve this kind of speed and performance. However, it will be faster than the current Sheppard bus, and far faster than 10km/h.
Because that's where the majority of people are going. If people wern't making it a destination, YUS wouldn't be filled to the brim every morning. Expanding suburban transit first is practically a zero sum game, because suburban transit expansion has 2 main goals: 1) increase speed and reliability in the suburbs, 2) increase ridership from the suburbs.
However, the majority of these transit trips would still be destined for downtown, and if the expansion does what it's supposed to and boosts ridership, it won't do a damn thing in terms of getting to their destination faster and more comfortably. Saving 5 minutes on your trip to the subway does no good if you're waiting an extra 2 or 3 trains to get onto the subway because more people (all those new suburban riders as a result of the suburban expansion) are trying to get on as well. Time saved = 0. Comfort gained = 0. You need to expand the capacity at the destination before you expand the capacity at the various origins. This is of course assuming that the destination is a single point, which in the case of downtown, it is.
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lead82
Senior Member
+1 well said. That is where Millers Transit City plan biggest failure. Its aim is to impove suburban bus routes but overload the yellow line beyond capacity! Miller should have instead fought hard to build Drl as top subway priority and got funding for it instead of wasting it on what is now left of transit city.
Dan416
Senior Member
I totally agree that DRL should have been prio 1. I would cancel all of Transit City and every other planned line to get the DRL (except the Spadina extension, but only because it's already under construction, and don't get me started on the Vaughan subway...) Once the DRL was in place, then we can worry about serving the suburbs and any HRT/LRT expansion on anyone's wishlist.
nfitz
Superstar
On transit? Bus frequencies in Seattle are pathetic compared to Toronto; there's no subway system other than the new LRT which only has a few stations. I'd have thought the most comparable city in NA is Vancouver.
Justin10000
Banned
Because your post is full of false criticism, and assumptions! you choose to ignorethe fact that the speed in the tunnelled section will be as fast as a subway, and the surface speed as stated in the EA will be considerably quicker than the 510/512!, It's like you're a kikd with fingers, and saying "lalala!" 'I'm not listening! LRT sucks, Subways good!" You come with any excuse possible. And you want sophisication? The LRV's are planned to be operated under Automatic Train Operation in the tunnels. Does the 510 have ATO in the Bay tunnel?
And the for the record, I live 2 secs away from the 512 St. Clair. I use it regularly. You really need stop with the assumptions. Your criticisms are NOT valid.
Well, except for the parallel bus service. The tunnelled section could use a few more stations, or at least some sort of bus to help riders between station.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
I've heard from a few people that St Clair is actually running pretty well these days.
I was on it a couple days ago, and I swear that between the red lights and the frequent stops the streetcar spent more time standing still than it did moving...
The Mad Navigator
Banned
I've had no problems with it lately. Headways seem pretty good these days despite the cars being schedule based.
The Mad Navigator
Banned
Dentroba....
Please.
I do comprehend the benefits fully of what the DRL will bring, but it will take much much longer before it becomes reality. The point is to get something started in the city's inner burbs so riders there can enjoy better transit service that what is there now. I want the DRL started now, but there's no EA complete for it yet, no selected alignment proposals, no funding, etc. You're going to have to wait quite some time before we can ride it.
kettal
Banned
First time I've ever heard that one.
Dan416
Senior Member
Indeed. Out of all North American cities I've visited (Montreal, Boston, Chicago) I'd say Montreal was most like Toronto. But they're all very similar.
SlickFranky
Active Member
I ride it often as well, and it has improved greatly since the early days of the Lansdowne extension. Headways are suprisingly regular (haven't seen any bunching at all in months), trip times are consistent, and it seems to be very well used at all hours. The speed is what it is...ok. But that's due to compromised stop placement, poor signal priority, and no POP. Overall I'd say it was built and planned poorly, but is being managed and operated very well.
Fresh Start
Banned
You're not making any sense, and worse you've joined the rabid angry mob in believing that I'm a banned poster reincarnated (and y'all have the audacity to accuse me of being a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist?). If subways were made to be the officially sought technology mode, ECLRT would be replaced with an Eglinton subway, SELRT with subway, S(L)RT with subway. Only Finch would remain with bus service (because the #36 bus never had the characteristics necessary for supporting light-rail), but commuters can easy well be directed into the Hydro Corridor allowing for people from Malvern to get to Humber College in one hour, if only official planners would study such a route.
So far we've seen Transit City collapse from a $6 billion, 120 kilometre light-rail project to a $8.15 billion, 58 kilometre one. The coverage area has gone dramatically down, and remember part of that 58 kms includes the preexisting SRT corridor. The Plan as it exists now lacks anything close to a full crosstown route, meaning it will not be connecting isolated suburb to another isolated suburb like the propaganda touted at the Save Transit City pep rally makes it appear. It will be funneling even more commuters onto overcongested trunk subway lines! This is why DRL is vital now. It was vital 25 years ago (Network 2011), it was vital in 1969 (Metropolitan Transit Plan), it was vital in 1910 and in 1895. Every generation prior to our's saw a need for it, but why wasn't it built? Because suburban ridings always took priority over the downtown (first Bloor chosen over Queen/DRL, then Yonge North, then Spadina Line, then SRT). Hasn't the inner-city been neglected enough? Do 10 minute waitimes in inclement weather for a 501 or 505 car which arrives overcrowded, just to take you 2 clicks down the road sound appealing to you?
Despite all this, inbound ridership has continued to rise while suburban subways/RT preform more poorly than the King streetcar. Bloor used to be the northern periphery of the urban area, but with population growth and neighbourhood change, that northern border is now Eglinton and is a true destination in its own right. Baring all this in mind, the best place to invest in higher-order transit is not the suburbs, where cheaper alternatives in many areas can produce the same results. But as people from the suburbs continue to make the downtown core their number one most visited destination (as any trip along the subway peak hour, midday will indicate), it only makes sense to help all those people out sooner rather than later by expediting the construction of a new subway across the downtown vs. having YUS as the only line inwards. 18,750pphpd is what the DRL would be transporting on a daily basis. Finch West LRT? Only 2800pphpd during peak hour, and that was before they truncated the line.