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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Tabatha Southey @TabathaSouthey · 3h
“This is what democracy’s supposed to be like†says CP24 lady of debate. I am starting to think these people may not have valuable insights.
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This. It has been a rough night. Have a better Wednesday morning than Tuesday evening, Big Smoke.
 
Olivia continues to get better in the debates, but she loses herself sometimes and can contradict herself in one statement (i.e. rental housing is different from affordable housing, that's why I advocate for more rental housing - she meant affordable housing). While Tory and Ford threw red meat at each other Olivia would pile on a little more yet very little came her way tonight. Doug was way better than I thought he'd be. Way better. Not to say his facts made him better (facts are for downtown latte sipping elites) but his control and the "fight" in him really shook Tory up. Not sure if I'd call this one for Doug or Olivia, by a margin I'd say Olivia because of Doug's Pride nonsense.
What we need is one or two damning front page stories in the Star to kill that pest Doug off and get him down to the low 20's, then it's Chow's or Tory's to win.
 
Just finished watching the debate, Chow won, it wasn't even a challenge. Chow gave answers, and some nice zingers, Tory and Ford kept repeating the same talking points and failed to answer questions, either by deflection or ignorance.

It was interesting that Doug could not separate himself from Robbie, or credit council for making votes. Dougie was right in Robbie getting consensus in council, even though most times they defeated Ford motions.

I don't think I can properly assess Tory's performance, all I can say is cookie cutter ignorance, and that's being kind.
 
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I was, of course, tempted to strategically vote in order to avoid more Ford years, but then I realized that my only true action against this madness is to vote for the person I think would best govern. Not the person I think best campaigned. A zinger at a debate is not a skill I require of a mayor.
 
Scarberian said:
Personally it brought me some bad memories of the bad old days in the country where I grew up.
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This. This s what I want to apologize for. I'm truly sorry that whatever turmoil and angst you went through in your home country you must also see here. These last 3 years more than ever have made me ashamed to be from Toronto. As much as I console myself that it is only 30% that 30% is loud, vocal and I suspect it speaks to a much larger dysfunction in general.
 
Someone yesterday mentioned that Thug would fit in as mayor of 1930s Chicago. The sorry spectacle of the debate hall stacked with FN thugs, goons and assorted low-life bullies jeering and booing the other candidates and driving the normal people from the room sounds like it was right out of 1930s Chicago politics. What a disgrace.
 
Scarberian said:
I don't blame her physically shirking away from Rob on those past debates. And nearing the end of tonight's debate where it seems the few sensible, sane, and moderates in the audience either fled or filtered out leaving only the choicest nuts. It was absolutely ugly and disgusting.



I'm not a fan of Chow as a candidate. I don't agree with many of her policies or politics, but I can certainly respect her tenacity and her creative arts background. And I agree with you. That Wrasslemania jeering crowd is ugly, and will always be ugly. I could not hear the exact jeers targeted at her, but looking at some of her expression I would not be surprised if it was something extremely out of bounds over the line garbage.



Personally it brought me some bad memories of the bad old days in the country where I grew up.
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Scarberian said:
Wow. Just, wow. Again I didn't catch it during the live stream, only saw her expression, but yeah, something like that is seriously over the line.



I thought it wasn't good optics when Iola managed to interrupt Chow early on. I was hoping Chow would call out the rigged jeering to Doug's face right then and there. As it got uglier however, it makes me loathe Thug even more, and I didn't think that was possible. I don't agree or support many of Chow's past and proposed policies. But she did not deserve that.
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To add to this Scarberian. It appears that even though you and I are not rooting for the same people, notice how we can not only respond to each other civilly, I can state that I actually quite adore your posts. Contrast us (the entire UT) to Ford Nation, who would rather spit on us than ever shake our hands.
 
Strange Advance said:
I agree, but my take on it in terms of Chow's and Tory's comparatively timid rebuttals is that they're simply not accustomed to debating - and facing crowds filled with - just utter, unmitigated lowlife scum. It is throwing both of them off their games. Politics has some vile characters, but how often do you see this sort of brutish, Neanderthalian behaviour in politics?
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Yeah, it's important to distinguish: they're both accustomed to debating, it's Doug that isn't.
But, it's like, if we agreed to play flag football but your team kept tackling mine, it wouldn't prove I don't know how to play football. It would merely show you don't play by the rules and thereby ruin the game for everyone, and the fact that you end up scoring more points doesn't mean you actually won.

Remember when Rob "won" that first debate and everyone was freaking out? He didn't win by talking better than them or disputing their points. He won by repeating stupid things. To use another sporting metaphor, it was a boxing match where he hardly threw a punch but every time they knocked him down he bounced back up.

The Fords wouldn't past muster on a high school debate team but their debased "style" plays well for people who don't really care that actually John Tory has visited social housing facilities (even if Doug didn't see him there). Doug had a "home" crowd and he bullied his way through and ignored press at the end. He probably went home feeling pretty badass but reality is going to catch up with him sooner rather than later.
 
adma said:
There's still over a month left.

And mark my words: if Doug "won", it's in such a way that'll bite him back on his keister. Ford Nation (and I don't mean his broadest supporters, I'm talking about the core goon squad as witnessed tonight) will be his downfall.

Those pundits who are saying "Doug won" are, unfortunately, viewing things in the rawest Doug-centric terms; as if the hooligans were irrelevant. No; the hooligans are *absolutely* relevant...
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Exactly. All those people who left the "debate" may have gone there with open minds as to who to vote for. Having seen Doug and his Ford Nationalists in action, and come away disgusted, they're going to choose one of the other candidates, not Doug.
 
I'm curious to find out how many warrants made it onto the "list" expected to be provided today. I'm going to be at the courthouse, so if I have time I'll try to peek in and do a bit of evesdropping!
 
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