Where does your councillor stand? A compilation of statements from the past few days: http://robfordfiles.com/blog/428/statements-toronto-city-councillors-whether-rob-ford-should-resign
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Rob Ford's Toronto
- Thread starter MetroMan
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Acrossthewater
New Member
Protest signs
Rob Ford talked about saving Toronto from going over the cliff. How about a sign saying...
Mayor YOU are the cliff. Step Off!
(Edit: cause fat fingers)
Rob Ford talked about saving Toronto from going over the cliff. How about a sign saying...
Mayor YOU are the cliff. Step Off!
(Edit: cause fat fingers)
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evvabeing
Senior Member
sorry if this has been already answered. i've been trying to catch up i but seem to always be at least 10 pages behind. if i do come across someone else addressing this, i will delete this comment.
i read (i think in the star) that at least 20 of the redacted pages in the released ITO cover things learned from the wiretaps. since project brazen 2 and project traveller overlap in both subjects and detectives, there's at least one part in the ITO that starts with something about the following being learned from giroux, and then goes into wiretap information.
so if i understand this correctly, we can learn about some of what was wiretapped without having the project traveller documents released. although they will hopefully be released too.
MetroMan
Senior Member
One persistent question that keeps coming back to my mind is why have the police not charged Ford for the crimes for which they do have plenty of evidence? They may be petty in the context of the purpose of Brazen 2 but not charging Ford with driving while under influence, urinating in public, littering, distracted driving makes for very poor optics.
Chief Blair is fending off allegations that the police had this massive operation and never charged Ford with anything and didn't bust him in the dozens and dozens of exchanges with Lisi where they had probable cause. Yet, by letting him off on these other charges they give those allegations ammunition.
The police need to call Ford in to charge him with each of these instances and should do them one by one so that each is a news story. Of or the benefit of full disclosure since the Mayor is their "boss", the TPS would put out a press release each time. This would really start picking at Ford's image as a crime fighting figure -- an important attribute to many in FordNation.
At the very least, the Mayor should not be left off the hook on any of these charges witnessed directly by police. It just looks terrible on the Toronto Police Service.
Chief Blair is fending off allegations that the police had this massive operation and never charged Ford with anything and didn't bust him in the dozens and dozens of exchanges with Lisi where they had probable cause. Yet, by letting him off on these other charges they give those allegations ammunition.
The police need to call Ford in to charge him with each of these instances and should do them one by one so that each is a news story. Of or the benefit of full disclosure since the Mayor is their "boss", the TPS would put out a press release each time. This would really start picking at Ford's image as a crime fighting figure -- an important attribute to many in FordNation.
At the very least, the Mayor should not be left off the hook on any of these charges witnessed directly by police. It just looks terrible on the Toronto Police Service.
Parker
Active Member
Oh, I'm sure everyone wants to see the video, for one reason or another. Mostly prurient curiosity, though I'm sure for many it's that primarily they want the straw-grasping, boneheaded apologists to see and acknowledge the video - which may prove disappointing since the goalpost will quickly shuffle further down the field to "how can we tell what's in the pipe." Hotmail Lawyer™ Has already primed that by suggesting that the mayor could be smoking tobacco in this video that doesn't exist.
Waiting until you can see the fine details in the video before judging the mayor on his credibility and fitness for office, after the shenanigans of the past three years, strikes me as willful denial more than anything else.
Back in May a columnist put it quite nicely in my opinion when he said that the presumption of innocence did not require us to believe in fairy tales in the face of massive and mounting circumstantial evidence.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
I wonder how many people who regularly bitch and moan about Ford will actually show up? Probably very few. (because they are much too busy with work, school, doing laundry or shopping)
arksi
Active Member
I can't see the TPS's image improving by nailing him for any of those things, with the exception of driving under influence. I'm not sure how that one would work anyway without a breathalizer test taking place. If, as we've speculated, bigger charges are coming, I don't imagine that they're too concerned about any of these short term pains. I don't imagine they have everything pinned on whether or not Lisi will squeal as well. It's possible they have other aces up their sleeve through Basso or other associates of Ford's who may be more inclined to spill the beans. Wishful thinking though, I suppose.
Don Mount
New Member
This.
One can only dream:
346. (1) Every one commits extortion who, without reasonable justification or excuse and with intent to obtain anything, by threats, accusations, menaces or violence induces or attempts to induce any person, whether or not he is the person threatened, accused or menaced or to whom violence is shown, to do anything or cause anything to be done.
Extortion
(1.1) Every person who commits extortion is guilty of an indictable offence and liable
(a) where a firearm is used in the commission of the offence, to imprisonment for life and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of four years; and
(b) in any other case, to imprisonment for life.
Also in said dream:
465. (1) Except where otherwise expressly provided by law, the following provisions apply in respect of conspiracy:
(c) every one who conspires with any one to commit an indictable offence not provided for in paragraph (a) or (b) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to the same punishment as that to which an accused who is guilty of that offence would, on conviction, be liable; and
(d) every one who conspires with any one to commit an offence punishable on summary conviction is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
pattycakes
Senior Member
Maybe Blair was sending Ford a message last week. I have to believe there is a bigger picture, and while we are outraged at him driving drunk, what if "it" is so big, that rather than jeopardize the investigation, they had to look the other way. Blair knows what the optics are, he won't go down for Rob Ford. That I guarantee.
tariqata
Active Member
Sitting in the library in London (Ontario) listening to a bunch of people watching the news and trying to figure out what the hell is going on with Toronto's mayor. Sigh.
ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
You guys are right. We shouldn't bother because people may not show up. We should just keep bitching on internet forums, because that's working so well. Or we could work together to dispel the myth that people don't really care about this and we're happy with Ford's "record."
This whole "people won't show up so why bother" argument is dumb. We complain so much about the fact that our politicians are able to get away with so much, it's this dumb attitude that allows it. We are so lazy and boring and apathetic we can't put aside time to stand together in public and voice our dissent, a tactic that's worked for many, many, many years.
To the people who are saying "why bother"; question, why aren't you willing to step up and show physical, in real life, dissent? What's holding you back?
This whole "people won't show up so why bother" argument is dumb. We complain so much about the fact that our politicians are able to get away with so much, it's this dumb attitude that allows it. We are so lazy and boring and apathetic we can't put aside time to stand together in public and voice our dissent, a tactic that's worked for many, many, many years.
To the people who are saying "why bother"; question, why aren't you willing to step up and show physical, in real life, dissent? What's holding you back?
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nrb
Active Member
My problem with the measured "reasoned" approach to criticizing Ford and his opponents is that his actions are so absurdly awful at this point to legitimize them as even being worth arguing about is bad. He deserves ridicule, anger and needs to be forcefully removed from office. Protests are the way to go.. i'll be attending.
ParkdalePetunia
Active Member
I'ld be willing to protest just to find out why we're paying David Price 130 grand a year, ffs! Our tax dollars are paying these jack asses, we deserve some answers.
pattycakes
Senior Member
Norm Wilner's most recent article:
Save Rob Ford
Every time he’s found transgressing, he does something even worse. What’s next?
"Visibility and responsibility have never sat well on Rob Ford's shoulders; he's only really effective as a politician when he stands in objection to something. He's terrible at governance, which requires shaping opinions and building consensus. No wonder he's constantly ditching work to get drunk and/or high; it's the only escape he has left."
http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=195151
Save Rob Ford
Every time he’s found transgressing, he does something even worse. What’s next?
"Visibility and responsibility have never sat well on Rob Ford's shoulders; he's only really effective as a politician when he stands in objection to something. He's terrible at governance, which requires shaping opinions and building consensus. No wonder he's constantly ditching work to get drunk and/or high; it's the only escape he has left."
http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=195151
Fresco
Active Member
Dude, I totally hear you and mostly agree with you.
But I dunno if you've ever sat on a jury in a criminal trial??! There they always instruct the jury to remember 2 things:
1. Always wait till all the evidence is in before coming to a verdict.
2. Be absolutely sure beyond a shadow of a doubt the person is guilty.
Right now I'm at 99% sure Ford is guilty, I need that extra 1 percent to make it 100%. And that extra 1% will be in the form of a video. The video is out there, so therefore cops should show it to the public
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