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Rob Ford's Toronto

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That gives me a good idea. Maybe we can add tolls to the existing bike lanes to build new ones and to build a bike storage facility.

I would fully support an idea like this: Remove all road construction/maintenance costs from taxes. Then charge motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians a fair share according to distance travelled, how much public space they take up when moving, public space used when parking, wear and tear on the roads, etc.

Somehow, I don't think the motoring public would be as supportive.
 
I would fully support an idea like this: Remove all road construction/maintenance costs from taxes. Then charge motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians a fair share according to distance travelled, how much public space they take up when moving, public space used when parking, wear and tear on the roads, etc.

Somehow, I don't think the motoring public would be as supportive.

The price of goods would skyrocket. Trucks cause probably hundreds of times more damage than passenger vehicles.
 
You are aware that we subsidise drivers, cars, and suburban roads/utilities more than we subsidise anything else in this country, right?

You do realise that removing current subsidies to suburban drivers living beyond their means would lead to a smaller more efficient and fiscally responsible government, right?

But think of all the 'middle class' infrastructure union jobs that was created and built this country. That class is now diminishing because of a shrinking government...
 
You are aware that we subsidise drivers, cars, and suburban roads/utilities more than we subsidise anything else in this country, right?

You do realise that removing current subsidies to suburban drivers living beyond their means would lead to a smaller more efficient and fiscally responsible government, right?

Where do you get this stuff? Would you care to put some number on the table?
 
You are aware that we subsidise drivers, cars, and suburban roads/utilities more than we subsidise anything else in this country, right?

You do realise that removing current subsidies to suburban drivers living beyond their means would lead to a smaller more efficient and fiscally responsible government, right?

Sweet! If we're removing the subsidies us drivers get, are we also removing the taxes on gas we pay? Those are supposed to go towards road repair and infrastructure. To be fair if you remove the subsidies, you also have to remove the taxes as well - since cyclists don't buy gas and we're talking about levelling the playing field, the government would need to find a new way to charge everyone fairly (cyclists, motorists, delivery co's, TTC). This also means more government jobs, not less.

You do realize maintaining all those roads is what helps move our economy along. You can call it a subsidy if you like, but it's the cost of running a thriving economy. No matter what, goods and people have to get places that public transit and bicyles can never match.

If you tried to charge people 'the real cost' and price them out of cars. They won't go to the store across the city to buy something. They'll order it online - and have a heavy truck deliver it - if they can still afford it, since in your theory, the costs would become enormous on the delivery company and they'd be passed on to the consumer as well. So now, no one can afford anything, and the economy slows.

Due to the nature or location(s) of some peoples jobs it is impossible for them to use any other form of transportation other than a car, so it would be an unfair burden to people in those types of jobs as well. Plus, the auto ain't going nowhere anytime soon. whether it's electric powered, internal combustion or flux capacitor powered, there will always be cars - and driving commuters.
 
Sweet! If we're removing the subsidies us drivers get, are we also removing the taxes on gas we pay? Those are supposed to go towards road repair and infrastructure. To be fair if you remove the subsidies, you also have to remove the taxes as well - since cyclists don't buy gas and we're talking about levelling the playing field, the government would need to find a new way to charge everyone fairly (cyclists, motorists, delivery co's, TTC). This also means more government jobs, not less.

You do realize maintaining all those roads is what helps move our economy along. You can call it a subsidy if you like, but it's the cost of running a thriving economy. No matter what, goods and people have to get places that public transit and bicyles can never match.

If you tried to charge people 'the real cost' and price them out of cars. They won't go to the store across the city to buy something. They'll order it online - and have a heavy truck deliver it - if they can still afford it, since in your theory, the costs would become enormous on the delivery company and they'd be passed on to the consumer as well. So now, no one can afford anything, and the economy slows.

Due to the nature or location(s) of some peoples jobs it is impossible for them to use any other form of transportation other than a car, so it would be an unfair burden to people in those types of jobs as well. Plus, the auto ain't going nowhere anytime soon. whether it's electric powered, internal combustion or flux capacitor powered, there will always be cars - and driving commuters.

The gasoline taxes only goes towards provincial highways, such as the 400-series. It does not include highways that were downloaded to the city, such as the Gardiner Expressway between the Humber River and 427 (which originally was part of the Queen Elizabeth Way). It does not include city streets, such as the street you live on, which are paid currently with property taxes.
 
The gasoline taxes only goes towards provincial highways, such as the 400-series. It does not include highways that were downloaded to the city, such as the Gardiner Expressway between the Humber River and 427 (which originally was part of the Queen Elizabeth Way). It does not include city streets, such as the street you live on, which are paid currently with property taxes.

$4 billion per year. That is how much the province gets in gas taxes per year. Ontarians bought 16.2 billion liters of gasoline (2010). 14.7 cents per liter in excise tax, 8% provincial portion of HST (~6% after ITCs). That alone provides 3.35 billion. Add in HST on new vehicle sales ~1.2 billion (I can't find used car sales figures for Ontario) . Add in other factors like license fees 500 million and various multipliers and you are over 5 billion per year. I will leave it to you to uncover for yourself the expense side of the ledger.
 
$600,000 For planning and site preparation (I would love to know what has been done), seem absurd. The Now article should have asked Brookfield what it cost them. That would have added to the debate.

Wonder if the hipsters would be outraged considering that's enough money to buy 3,000 fixie bikes @ 400.00 (1.2mM a pop... )

To be clear, Doug's an idiot, but one can see how this is outrages. Even if you hire an architect for an entire year (100k/yr)...
 
You are aware that we subsidise drivers, cars, and suburban roads/utilities more than we subsidise anything else in this country, right?
Wow, talk about galloping hyperbole.

I am aware that governments build, own and maintain roads in both suburban and urban areas because the economy requires them. How does a government subsidize something it owns?

I am also aware that drivers/motorists pay to use these roads, cyclists do not.
 
Wow, talk about galloping hyperbole.

I am aware that governments build, own and maintain roads in both suburban and urban areas because the economy requires them. How does a government subsidize something it owns?

I am also aware that drivers/motorists pay to use these roads, cyclists do not.

To maintain the city roads, property taxes are collected to do so. Which includes cyclists. And because the roads in the suburban areas are w-i-d-e-r, that means more material, which means a higher cost.
 
That gives me a good idea. Maybe we can add tolls to the existing bike lanes to build new ones and to build a bike storage facility.

Ummm... despite y'all's childishness on cars and roads, this is a good idea. I'd be happy to pay a dedicated bike toll, tax, or annual fee, as long as I knew it was going to NOTHING but repaving bike paths and expanding the bike path network. A separated bike lane from WDL to Bay & Front or Bay & King, please!

I'd be happy to re-instate the vehicle tax and dedicate it to road paving and construction. Or toll the DVP. I'm paying every time I'm on the Autoroutes here in France, and it's a pleasure to get to go 130k and have well-paved highways. I'd be happy if they agreed to up the speed limit on the DVP by (a) tolling and (b) making it safer to drive at a higher speed.
 
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