Rob Ford's Toronto

[CDL.TO]

It seems clear to me that people don't care what the union did or did not get out the strike. People care that they were inconvenienced.

 

[sixrings]

It seems clear to me that people don't care what the union did or did not get out the strike. People care that they were inconvenienced.

I am generally liberal. However I did and do think unions have too much power.. I was happy when David Miller fought the unions.. I didn't care that I was inconvenienced. However I did care that I was inconvenienced just to cave so that the city would be clean and we would look presentable for the PAN AM Games committee. That really frustrated me.. If you want to go against a Union you have to accept you need to go ALL IN... That frustrated me and I didn't think I would vote David Miller again. HOWEVER when the option basically came down to FORD vs the rest I wish I had somewhere I could Vote Miller.

 

[nfitz]

However I did care that I was inconvenienced just to cave so that the city would be clean and we would look presentable for the PAN AM Games committee. That really frustrated me..

Cave? They got a huge concession from the union to eliminate the sick day bank. It will be more phased in for existing staff than the city was looking for, but it will ultimately be completely off the books. For wages the union was asking for a 9% increase over 3 years (3% for 3 years, and the city initially offered 7% over 4 years (an average increase of 1.75% a year). They settled for 6% (a 2% increase for 3 years). I'm not seeing how the union won anything (especially given they accepted in 2012 a new contract that gave them 0% for what would have been year 4 ... they'd have been better off with Miller's original 4-year offer than what they finally agreed to).

Those were the biggest issues as far as I recall.

You think they should have extended the strike longer? It was pretty clear there wasn't the stomach on the part of most citizens for that. Just to phase in the sick bank pay quicker?

Yeah, Ford got some tough pay concessions out of them. Though the fiscal situation had changed in 3 years ... and they accepted it quicker than they did with Miller. Had Miller not pushed them to strike for 6 weeks, I doubt they'd have been as co-operative with Ford.

So why didn't Ford pay real hardball? Especially with the TTC and Police unions, neither of which took any concessions, and got decent increases under Ford.

 

[sixrings]

Cave? They got a huge concession from the union to eliminate the sick day bank. It will be more phased in for existing staff than the city was looking for, but it will ultimately be completely off the books. For wages the union was asking for a 9% increase over 3 years (3% for 3 years, and the city initially offered 7% over 4 years (an average increase of 1.75% a year). They settled for 6% (a 2% increase for 3 years). I'm not seeing how the union won anything (especially given they accepted in 2012 a new contract that gave them 0% for what would have been year 4 ... they'd have been better off with Miller's original 4-year offer than what they finally agreed to).

Those were the biggest issues as far as I recall.

You think they should have extended the strike longer? It was pretty clear there wasn't the stomach on the part of most citizens for that. Just to phase in the sick bank pay quicker?

My other problem with the strike was that people were doing well bringing their garbage to the garbage depots but had to cross picket lines... they could have made it much easier then what was done..

 

[nfitz]

My other problem with the strike was that people were doing well bringing their garbage to the garbage depots but had to cross picket lines... they could have made it much easier then what was done..

There was no picket lines at the temporary facilities across the city, as far as I recall. Only the actual work places.

 

[sixrings]

maybe my memory is fuzzy,,, I lived in a condo with private garbage pick up so I wasn't affected... however I swear I saw in the media lines up of people trying to drop off their garbage but was slowed down by picket lines... I may be mistaken,... anyways it was a PR nightmare..

 

[DSC]

There was no picket lines at the temporary facilities across the city, as far as I recall. Only the actual work places.

There were pickets at the temporary sites - at least at the one close to Leslie & Eglinton. I cycled past it several times and the pickets were there and only allowing x cars through each hour.

 

[nfitz]

There were pickets at the temporary sites - at least at the one close to Leslie & Eglinton. I cycled past it several times and the pickets were there and only allowing x cars through each hour.

I never accumulated enough garbage to have to bother to visit one. I don't recall seeing any at the one near my house ... but I'd think most in the neighbourhood wouldn't be driving over (garbage in the car? If it doesn't smell it can stay in the basement ... if it smells, in the car? Really?) but carrying it over. I'd have probably have taken garbage bags on the streetcar if I'd had to. And even those that drove would surely if there were pickets, park nearby and carry the bags over.

Not sure how you picket a drop-off facility ... surely most sensible people would just drop the garbage bags at the picketers, turn around and leave.

And perhaps this is why I don't recall seeing picketers where many would be taking garbage on foot.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I never accumulated enough garbage to have to bother to visit one. I don't recall seeing any at the one near my house ... but I'd think most in the neighbourhood wouldn't be driving over (garbage in the car? If it doesn't smell it can stay in the basement ... if it smells, in the car? Really?) but carrying it over. I'd have probably have taken garbage bags on the streetcar if I'd had to. And even those that drove would surely if there were pickets, park nearby and carry the bags over.

Not sure how you picket a drop-off facility ... surely most sensible people would just drop the garbage bags at the picketers, turn around and leave.

And perhaps this is why I don't recall seeing picketers where many would be taking garbage on foot.

We had relatives who lived in a condo, where there was private pickup from the high-rise. Guess where my garbage went? When we visited them, we took along a "gift".

 

[syn]

Precisely. Ironically, had he done so without a strike, no one would have really cared that much, and we wouldn't have had the extreme right-wing back lash.

I completely agree. Does anyone know what the Union won/lost in that deal? No one has a clue. All people remember is that they were inconvenienced, therefore Miller did a bad job.

 

[Glen]

I never accumulated enough garbage to have to bother to visit one. I don't recall seeing any at the one near my house ... but I'd think most in the neighbourhood wouldn't be driving over (garbage in the car? If it doesn't smell it can stay in the basement ... if it smells, in the car? Really?) but carrying it over. I'd have probably have taken garbage bags on the streetcar if I'd had to. And even those that drove would surely if there were pickets, park nearby and carry the bags over.

Not sure how you picket a drop-off facility ... surely most sensible people would just drop the garbage bags at the picketers, turn around and leave.

And perhaps this is why I don't recall seeing picketers where many would be taking garbage on foot.

Mayor David Miller should have gone to court weeks ago to bar striking garbage workers from blocking residents at trash transfer stations, says former mayor Mel Lastman.
"I think the way we're treating the citizens of Toronto is disgraceful," he told CTV News Channel Monday evening.
Residents have been growing increasingly frustrated with lengthy wait times at Toronto waste transfer stations.

For example, the lineup at the Ingram transfer station Monday was about three hours long as only one car was allowed in at a time every 15 minutes. At another transfer site, people complained of five-hour wait times.
Once a driver is allowed into the site, they are only permitted to throw out three bags of garbage. Bylaw officers were on hand to ticket anyone found dumping their trash before their turn had arrived....


Read more: http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-mayor-too-slow-in-garbage-strike-lastman-1.416307#ixzz2O0LTOHEE

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As for drop offs.........

Amesbury Arena
Campbell Park
Centennial Arena
Clairlea Park Arena
Eglinton Flats (1)
Eglinton Flats (2)
Etienne Brule Park
George Bell Arena
Highland Creek Wastewater Treatment Plant
L'Amoreaux Park
Moss Park
North York Centennial Centre
Otter Creek Centre
Sir Casimir Gzowski Park
Sunnyside Park
Scarborough Arena
Taylor Creek Park
Villiers Street
Wilket Creek Park
Bermondsey Transfer Station
Commissioners Street Transfer Station
Disco Transfer Station
Dufferin Transfer Station
Ingram Transfer Station
Scarborough Transfer Station
Victoria Park Transfer Station

 

[sixrings]

Thanks GLEN I thought the strike was mismanaged. Fight th unions but help the unions at the same time. WTF... Even if NFITZ is right and we got a better deal then the union wanted we made a deal right when the UNION was becoming very desperate. Many families could no longer manage to hold on much longer living off of their savings or their spouses support. We may have made a deal but it could have been a better deal. I know I might sound very cold to unions but I cant help but feel hostage to them sometimes and Id be ok with having the Police strike if thats what it took to get a better deal...

 

[PinkLucy]

We had relatives who lived in a condo, where there was private pickup from the high-rise. Guess where my garbage went? When we visited them, we took along a "gift".

We were sent notices telling us not to let our visitors/friends/relatives bring their garbage

 

[nfitz]

Residents have been growing increasingly frustrated with lengthy wait times at Toronto waste transfer stations.

I'm not sure your point. I explictly referred to the temporary facilities - not the permanent city facilities (which I certainly saw, as I drove up Bermondsey frequently).

 

[js97]

I never accumulated enough garbage to have to bother to visit one.

So how can you make a call on if it was busy or not?

I'm generally centrist/libertarian. I think individuals do have the right to strike, but when you impede on my right to dispose garbage, that's when my sympathy fails.

Anywhere from Christie pits to the Unwin/leslie dump. Both were picketed, I was at both. They were militant also and obstructed individuals:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/n...-garbage-dumps/article1204742/?service=mobile


So let's not go there and pretend the garbage strike was all in the name of 'democracy hurra'