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Rob Ford's Toronto

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CN Tower:

It's really not about your political view or ideology - there are honourable conservatives just as there are dishonourable liberals - the issue here is competenence and public trust, and the issues surrounding the video isn't mere "bafoonery and bad form" - but raises some very legitimate issues that so far - if you can fire your Chief of Staff and BOTH your communications guys quit on the same day over "values", why should any of us has any confidence over his office and his conduct? These are the individuals who would be in the know, perhaps even more than the press - and you can't really accuse them of being insufficiently committed to the cause either, given the level of partisanship in that office.

AoD
 
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John Cook was on KISS 92.5 this morning - he definitely acknowledged they were over the limit but he said they still weren't in contact with their source (not that he would say otherwise even if they were...)
He did say they would wait about a month before giving up... and was pretty vague about what charity they'd give it to if they didn't get the video.

I don't understand this. How is Toronto Star in contact with the owners but Gawker isn't? It just dosen't add up.
 
CN Tower:

It's really not about your political view or ideology - there are honourable conservatives just as there are dishonourable liberals - the issue here is competenence and public trust, and the issues surrounding the video isn't mere "bafoonery and bad form" - but raises some very legitimate issues that so far - if you can fire your Chief of Staff and BOTH your communications guys quit on the same day over "values", why should any of us has any confidence over his office and his conduct?

AoD

Exactly. You can support a Ford-esque agenda without supporting Ford. To continue to support Ford, as of today, is completely irrational in my books. It's tribalism, which is why I get why his ward will support him until the day he dies.
 
I don't understand this. How is Toronto Star in contact with the owners but Gawker isn't? It just dosen't add up.

The Star is NOT in contact with the owner(s). They are likely talking to the same middle-man.

No one has ever been in contact with the owner(s).
 
The Star is NOT in contact with the owner(s). They are likely talking to the same middle-man.

No one has ever been in contact with the owner(s).

Oh okay. Thanks for the clarification.

I have to wonder of the owner or middle-men will be hand delivering it to Gawker. There's apparently a copy in New York. I would be amazed if Gawker (based in NY) dosen't get it.
 
And to complete my mass-posting:

This is all frustrating because many of us knew Ford was capable of this buffoonery long before he was elected. He had shown himself to be a short-tempered, idiot, populist blow-hard during his time on council. I contrast this with Stephen Harper, who's agenda I also do not support, but who's competence was never really questioned.


The told-ya-so crowd is loud and that is well within their right.
 
Oh okay. Thanks for the clarification.

I have to wonder of the owner or middle-men will be hand delivering it to Gawker. There's apparently a copy in New York. I would be amazed if Gawker (based in NY) dosen't get it.

My guess is communication is probably very difficult and nobody has figured out the logistics of the exchange.... especially if the video holders are scared of both their peers AND the police.
 
AoD:

I actually think the video probably will show that the mayor was doing crack. I'm just unsure when the video was made, whether it was edited in any way, etc. because we don't know. In my opinion it's fair to wait until more evidence and facts emerge before labeling someone with such serious charges. I don't trust anything the Star has to say at this point either. I trust the G&M for the most part as well as the CBC.

You theorize what the video will probably show yet you doubt the integrity of the Toronto Star who broke the story and who have two respected journalists who have viewed the video? The Toronto Star, like the G&M, Post, CBC etc. has a very good track record in reporting. The Toronto Star should be commended for having the courage to investigate this story and release it instead of sitting on it, which they could have done until the alleged video surfaces. They also should be awarded for focusing on this incompetent Mayor of ours like they have, and not bowed to public pressure. In a world where true investigative journalism is becoming less and less common The Toronto Star gets big points in my books.
 
Exactly. You can support a Ford-esque agenda without supporting Ford. To continue to support Ford, as of today, is completely irrational in my books. It's tribalism, which is why I get why his ward will support him until the day he dies.

Exactly this - I wish the people defending Ford's behaviour+actions would consider things in this manner.
To take it to the logical extreme for demonstrative purposes: Ford comes out with a platform of "Kittens are cute and we shouldn't stomp on them, so I pledge to end Kitten-Stomping" and is elected on that basis - pretty much everyone will agree with that agenda and vote him in. Then Ford is caught smoking meth, and all of the crazy shit happening around the video + resignations + David Price happens. We don't all go out and start kitten-stomping because we want the man out of office. We are all still fully against the stomping of kittens. But the man has to go.

Do people think that the resignations in the office and Towhey's resignation all have to do with something that has been fabricated by the Toronto Star? Is that really how deep it goes?
 
Anyone who has watched the infamous "Fat F**k" video on Youtube and expected Ford to have integrity, maturity, intelligence and competence, needs to have their judgement questioned. It's clear the Rob Ford in that video, lacked all of those qualities but obviously, for his followers, that was not an issue. Screwing over lefty Toronto and saving a few dollars in taxes were the priority and always will be. That is why if the crack video comes out, most of them will find a way to justify it and discount it. Ford's base may be stupid but they are solid in their hate of lefty Toronto and it's so called downtown elites. They won't think twice about voting for him again. The thing is, they only make up about 1/3 of the population, so depending on how the vote is split, anything is possible.
 
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I have to wonder of the owner or middle-men will be hand delivering it to Gawker. There's apparently a copy in New York. I would be amazed if Gawker (based in NY) dosen't get it.

This would be the best way to make the exchange - given the heat around the video, it's the best way to make the cash delivery and get the video onto the web without the fear of a police bust.
I have no doubt that Gawker is being quiet because it's the only way to make the exchange without drawing too much attention. They are also probably seeking legal counsel since this video will need to end up in the hands of police, and they likely want to make sure all the t's are crossed and i's are dotted so that they don't face any criminal charges that the police might try to level (for example, if they purchase THE phone which then needs to be turned over as evidence, one might be held accountable to the law for that kind of a deal...)
 
AoD:

I actually think the video probably will show that the mayor was doing crack. I'm just unsure when the video was made, whether it was edited in any way, etc. because we don't know. In my opinion it's fair to wait until more evidence and facts emerge before labeling someone with such serious charges. I don't trust anything the Star has to say at this point either. I trust the G&M for the most part as well as the CBC.


I can assure you that the video wasn't faked. It would literally be a world first if it was. So can we put this useless debate to rest?
 
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And to complete my mass-posting:

This is all frustrating because many of us knew Ford was capable of this buffoonery long before he was elected. He had shown himself to be a short-tempered, idiot, populist blow-hard during his time on council. I contrast this with Stephen Harper, who's agenda I also do not support, but who's competence was never really questioned.


The told-ya-so crowd is loud and that is well within their right.

And those who needed (and apparently still need) to be "told" should probably not be trusted in the future. There's a solid 47% of the electorate who, based on their past sins, should have to wear a dunce cap and stand beside someone wearing an "<I'm with stupid" t-shirt.
 
And can Ford defenders really support what he has done since being elected? http://rabble.ca/news/2013/05/rob-ford-and-blue-collar-millionaire-myth

As of late, Ford Nation has been having a more challenging time rallying to defend Toronto Mayor Rob Ford, in the wake of increasing scandal. But there is a mantra that they feel safe in falling back on when they wish to deflect from the controversy at hand: he's done good things for the city. He's cleaned up the financial mess the city was in.
Has he? Was the city in such a mess? The millions that it cost Toronto taxpayers to look for Ford's famed "gravy", ended up not really finding any. But it did leave us with a very large bill paid to KPMG.
In fact, in his first year in office, the Ford administration CREATED a deficit. Between the cancellation of the vehicle registration tax (a tax that brought in roughly $64 million per year ), Ford's other tax cuts, the removal of newly implemented bike lanes and the penalties incurred by Ford's cancellation of Transit City (to say nothing of how far back that set Toronto in its transit problems), Ford managed to create a $320 million deficit in that first year alone.
The Ford administration then said "look at this deficit! Cuts must be made!" and proceeded to pay for this newly created deficit by cutting programs that largely benefited the city's poor -- in particular, the city's poor children. The cuts included: food programs for children living below the poverty line; city programs where someone who is destitute could get money for a funeral; public pools and wading pools; libraries; city run daycares; and the Christmas Bureau that helped children in need at Christmas time.
No longer did the owners of luxury vehicles, for example, have to pay a vehicle registration tax; no, that was 'unfair,' said Rob Ford. So along with the cuts, Ford implemented such things as more user fees, like those on children using public pools. A reverse Robin Hood of sorts.
None of this makes him a fiscally responsible mayor. Because disenfranchised, stressed, poor children -- with fewer and fewer equalizers to help them along in their formative years -- run the very high risk of becoming part of dramatically higher costs later in life, including from welfare, health and psychiatric problems. And prison. All of this costs the beloved taxpayer far more in the long run than the lesser upfront cost of helping children and families in need.
That Ford managed to pay for the deficit he created should not be used as evidence of what a good mayor he has been financially for the City of Toronto.

But Ford supporters believe this as though it were gospel.
To understand this better we need to go back to Ford's arrival on the broader Toronto scene. To create and solidify their base, Ford and his backers used a strategy that has proven successful elsewhere. It is a strategy that worked well, at least for a time, for George W Bush, for instance: playing up a persona that people make a personal connection with.
Let's call it the blue-collar-lunch pail-millionaire phenomenon -- a persona ironically co-opted by men who never worked a blue collar job in their lives. But it conveniently divided and conquered to send Ford to the Mayor's seat. It pitted the so-called "elite" -- the intellectuals, the artists, the environmentalists, even the unionists -- against the other supposed "ordinary" citizens of the Greater Toronto Area. Downtown versus the 'burbs.
They (those mythical elites) just waste money and don't know the value of a dollar. Not like Ford. Who, again, never had to want for anything financially. But by making the suburban voter feel like Ford was one of them, Ford successfully brought them on side. A C- student Johnny lunch pail everyman that would take care of your hard earned tax dollars, since he would treat that money like his own. Again, ironically, his money originated from family wealth.
But the Fords are not the working-class everyman. Brother Doug is more akin to Dick Cheney getting the man he shot in the face to issue a public apology to Cheney. They are the wealthy bullies who put their fist in your face then blamed you for it and demanded that you apologize to them. Then they went a step further and claimed to be poor victims of baseless smears.
As more threads start to unravel in the Ford saga, we can have sympathy for the brothers, and especially for their families, certainly. Because we are all human beings and worthy of compassion. But let's not rewrite reality in this heated process.
The office of Mayor has been sidetracked by scandal after scandal regarding how the Fords run their personal lives. But let's not also lose sight that this mayor's administration, while not a complete financial disaster (partially due to the nature of how City Council operates), has most certainly been no saviour for the city's finances either.
To say nothing of its social health.
 
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