Rob Ford's Toronto

[hper]

Without even broaching the 'Empathic vs. Empathetic' or 'Empathy vs. Sympathy' divides, the only -pathy that can be rigorously applied to either public Ford is of the Socio- or Psycho- variety. Soon someone will chirp up about Doug's casual, pathological relationship with facts and truth and say 'Awww, you gotta feel for the big galoot' or some such. Well, probably not. But...

Watching this turnip of a Mayor waddle through the near-North -'Monkey Suit' or not - in his 'rehab' is sickening. These goons think they can play everyone. Viewing a cowed- or worse - genuflective press (Hey, Joe. Where you goin' with that scribbler in your hand?) enable this whole ghastly vaudeville is even worse. Councillors and Mayoral aspirants who abide the whole crap show and say nothing perceptibly 'impolite', worse still. The truly irredeemable are the IHTHWOF delusionauts, now well into their rainbow-wigged, 'John 3:16' phase. To quote a stooge, 'This is fucked, Daddy'.

 

[James_D]

He's a giant gaping asshole who also happens to be an alcoholic. I feel zero empathy, sympathy, compassion, commiseration or any other hair splitting semantic emotions. He hates this city. He has has nothing but contempt for a bulk of its inhabitants. How many times has he and his asshole appendage of a sibling declared war? Fuck him. Fuck his idiot brother. Fuck his fuck up sister and especially fuck that horrible bitch of a matriarch. Empathy, sympathy and being the better person has got us here. Douggie and Robbie routinely spitting in the face of the city. Fuck them. Hard.

 

[adma]

Fine points, however, traditionally, mothers usually dote on the youngest male of the family, the baby boy in a multi kid situation. This causes a tendency towards a lack of confidence, huqe insecurities, and lack of dealing with the stresses of conflict, or just colloquially "spoiled". In Robbie's case, all this, if true, is no doubt in addition to a domineering and abusive father pushing for success at all costs.

Can't help thinking of Teddy Kennedy there, too.

 

[adma]

I doubt there's much of a trust fund - their business needs a lot of cash to run and any excess earnings above dividend payouts are probably tied up in real estate. Ford Inc. probably doesn't have much of a best egg. This isn't the Eaton family - when Deco fails the Fords will be done.

But they *think* they're the Eaton family. And they're *spending* and *indulging* like they're the Eaton family.

What looks like solid mahogany might actually turn out to be balsa wood.

 

[VTB]

He's a giant gaping asshole who also happens to be an alcoholic. I feel zero empathy, sympathy, compassion, commiseration or any other hair splitting semantic emotions. He hates this city. He has has nothing but contempt for a bulk of its inhabitants. How many times has he and his asshole appendage of a sibling declared war? Fuck him. Fuck his idiot brother. Fuck his fuck up sister and especially fuck that horrible bitch of a matriarch. Empathy, sympathy and being the better person has got us here. Douggie and Robbie routinely spitting in the face of the city. Fuck them. Hard.

You forgot to mention that he also hates himself too. Geez, what a sad excuse for a human being.

 

[JWBF]

But they *think* they're the Eaton family. And they're *spending* and *indulging* like they're the Eaton family.

What looks like solid mahogany might actually turn out to be balsa wood.

Yep, the entitlement attitudes of those (as my wife likes to say) born with a silver spoon stuck up their ads. Fundamentalists are all about appearances, and having a superior place in the "community", and that's the rub, attitudes as such make them more vulnerable, and so the need for more control over the truth... round and round things go as people, and their reps, the media, dig more and more to find the truth. Couple that with the incessant need for a better soap opera and you have the crap that is going on now in all three levels of government.

Edit: Politicians don't worry about a living wage, so they could care less about those who don't unless they can get votes.

 

[VTB]

A friend sent me this pic

"Those legs press 1200lbs... Not Rob Fords"

 

[Kat's Meow]

Yes, I do feel empathy for pedophiles and for people who torture animals. Feeling empathy does not mean I agree with their actions or their worldview. It means that I understand that the people involved in both of those examples have -- like you and I and all other humans -- thoughts and feelings. I may not want to be anywhere near those people, but I do try to understand that we really aren't that different.

With all due respect, that is really just insulting ...

Those who torture animals are psychopaths in training oftentimes. Pedophiles have feelings for children, which lead to abuse. Yes they have feelings but they actually couldn't be more DIFFERENT from mine, or what could be considered " normal". So NO we are not similar in the least.

With respect to RoFo, I could not imagine humiliating myself or my family so publicly and repeatedly. I can not comprehend the sheer gall and hypocrisy of having so little regard for others challenges and illnesses but then asking for consideration and privacy for the same challenges and illness of addiction. The feelings of RoFo bear no similarity to what the normal person feels. He is just one very sick, self absorbed, hypocritical, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted, vile individual. I just can not wrap my brain around his behaviour and denial.

I remember back in 2010, Adam Giambrone withdrew from the ballot because he was "caught with his pants down". I have both empathy and sympathy for him. While I wouldn't cheat on my partner, I understand things happen. He admitted his mistake and removed himself so as not to have to deal with sorting his personal life in a public forum. I can get behind that and I can forgive that, you know human failing and such. But I can not get behind RoFo. If he had admitted and resigned, or even admitted and seriously went to rehab right away, I could have both sympathy and empathy. Instead he heaped lie upon lie, insulted his wife, insulted our collective intelligence, I could go on but I think you get the picture. He is vile, with no redeeming qualities and if he dropped dead tomorrow, I wouldn't bat an eye. Sorry.

 

[kbdid]

No one's making "fun" of Ford for being an alcoholic. There are lots of good people who suffer from addiction like alcoholism or other addictions. Its the lying (way beyond belief/denial) and stupid remedies (lose weight, lift weights) along with the hanging out with drug dealers and continued substance abuse. No one is "making fun" of alcoholism or drug addiction.

 

[Dottie]

With all due respect, that is really just insulting ...

Those who torture animals are psychopaths in training oftentimes. Pedophiles have feelings for children, which lead to abuse. Yes they have feelings but they actually couldn't be more DIFFERENT from mine, or what could be considered " normal". So NO we are not similar in the least.

Pedophiles don't have "feelings" for children - they are sexually attracted to children. But they do have feelings (i.e. thoughts and emotions) like everyone else. They probably have a lot of the very same day to day concerns that you and I do. These people aren't "monsters", they're people who do very bad things. If you want to believe that you're really so different from these people, go right ahead. Other than the tiny percentage of the population that truly are sociopaths, I tend to think we're all pretty much alike. Some people are seriously mentally ill, but that doesn't mean they stop being people.

With respect to RoFo, I could not imagine humiliating myself or my family so publicly and repeatedly. I can not comprehend the sheer gall and hypocrisy of having so little regard for others challenges and illnesses but then asking for consideration and privacy for the same challenges and illness of addiction. The feelings RoFo bear no similarity to what the normal person feels. He is just one very sick, self absorbed, hypocritical, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted, vile individual. I just can wrap my brain around his behaviour and denial.

Try doing what I do - pretend Rob Ford is a four year-old. He reacts to situations pretty much the same way. I don't condone his actions or want him as a mayor, but I can understand him on that basis. That's empathy. He's a damaged person, but he is a person. It is still possible for him to change.

Can we stop talking about empathy now?

 

[Kat's Meow]

I would really hate to see you definition of "monster".

ETA if he can only behave as a 4 year old, fine I get that. Behaving as a 4 year old while in charge of Canada's largest city, no way. FoFam is just vile. I get people can be damaged by their family but in the end, we all have choices and the ability to discern right from wrong. If we chose not to do the right thing, then no, I have no sympathy or empathy.

 

[Acrossthewater]

If you want to believe that you're really so different from these people, go right ahead. Other than the tiny percentage of the population that truly are sociopaths, I tend to think we're all pretty much alike.

Can we stop talking about empathy now?

Wat? You come on and insult everyone on the thread and now want to stop talking about empathy.

Fu#k Rob Ford the alcoholic, crack/herion addict and oh yeah, asshole.

ETA We haven't seen the Don Bosco documents yet as to why Rob was fired because he prevented release of the records. Gawd knows what's to come of that yet.

 

[Dottie]

Wat? You come on and insult everyone on the thread and now want to stop talking about empathy.

I didn't insult everyone on the thread. I said that if you can't feel empathy then you have a problem. I stand by that statement, but I'm not here to talk about empathy, I'm here to talk about Rob Ford. Feel free to PM me with how little you care about Rob Ford as a person or that you think pedophiles are not actually people. I won't read it, but it will save other people from having to sift through it when looking for discussion about Rob Ford.

 

[BellCalamity]

Pedophiles don't have "feelings" for children - they are sexually attracted to children. But they do have feelings (i.e. thoughts and emotions) like everyone else. They probably have a lot of the very same day to day concerns that you and I do. These people aren't "monsters", they're people who do very bad things. If you want to believe that you're really so different from these people, go right ahead. Other than the tiny percentage of the population that truly are sociopaths, I tend to think we're all pretty much alike. Some people are seriously mentally ill, but that doesn't mean they stop being people.

Pedophiles do have 'feelings' towards children beyond sexual attraction. Some pedophiles have romantic feelings towards children and their 'relationships' with children. I agree that they are mentally ill people and not monsters. Monsters are mythical creatures, rarely encountered and impossible to defeat. Unfortunately childhood sexual abuse is common and we do have the tools to stop it. If we are willing, honest, and don't live in denial.

I don't want to compare Rob Ford's actions and mental illness to Pedophillia. That is insensitive because childhood sexual abuse is often described as soul murder. They should be treated as murderers with a lifetime of medical treatment and monitoring.

Toronto will be free of Rob Ford & his family, one way or another. The city will move on and thrive.

I don't fault people who don't have empathy or even sympathy for Rob Ford at this point. Understanding him is enough if that's all you can manage. Sometimes too much empathy, or even sympathy leads to enabling behaviours. Addiction is a chronic illness, like cancer. Accountability is crucial for treatment. Just like chemotherapy or other treatments for cancer. Withholding treatment is harmful. Rob Ford must be held accountable for his actions somehow, since his family and doctors don't seem to be up for the task.

It's unlikely that Rob's mental illness will be managed based on some realization he gets from reading twitter or Urban Toronto. But at least it's better than saying nothing.

 

[Kat's Meow]

I didn't insult everyone on the thread. I said that if you can't feel empathy then you have a problem. I stand by that statement, but I'm not here to talk about empathy, I'm here to talk about Rob Ford. Feel free to PM me with how little you care about Rob Ford as a person or that you think pedophiles are not actually people. I won't read it, but it will save other people from having to sift through it when looking for discussion about Rob Ford.

It is insulting to say FoFam is like us. Sorry, just no.

I think the vast majority here are quite capable of empathy and sympathy. Just not for FoFam, for reasons that ought to be obvious. Not everyone is deserving of empathy.

The fact that some of us disagree with you outwardly while no one has yet defended your stance should cause you to wonder. Or perhaps only you are right while we are all wrong. That's possible too.

In the end, we should agree to disagree. With that, I bid you adieu.