Rob Ford's Toronto

[grey]

Are you capable of having a discussions without getting into petty name calling. Let me know.

Still can't answer the simple question.

 

[car4041]

One option is to give Doug Holiday credit for the negotiation and Rob Ford none. If this is true, then you must also give Karen Stintz most of the blame for the transit mess and confusion.

This is bizarre reasoning. You're saying that if Ford wasn't responsible for the contract negotiations, then he couldn't possibly have been responsible for the transit file either. How does that follow? It's entirely possible that he was more involved in one thing than the other.

 

[grey]

It's also possible that he actually was very involved in the contract negotiations and his staff was able to provide good guidance here, but they were totally unequipped and unprepared to deal with transit and the waterfront. We've heard from several sources that Ford's success really depends on the quality of advice he's getting, but unfortunately he chopped his office budget in order to save money, so their effectiveness is very limited.

He should (rightfully) be bragging about these accomplishments, but I guess he doesn't want to be associated too closely with unions and cooperating with them unless the headlines involve busting balls.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Very different environment and public mood between the Miller times vs. now re: unions and austerity. What wouldn't have been possible then is probably a no-brainer now.

AoD

 

[jn_12]

Very different environment and public mood between the Miller times vs. now re: unions and austerity. What wouldn't have been possible then is probably a no-brainer now.

AoD

Not only this, but Miller was screwed either way. If he settled early people would have complained about him being a friend of the unions. By being tough on them he still pissed people off. He was in a no-win situation and there was little he could do about it.

Similarly, Ford should have been given more criticism for his deal with the police union, given his supposed hatred of unions, but for whatever reason he got a pass there.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Are you capable of having a discussions without getting into petty name calling. Let me know.

Oh, come on. You asked a clearly loaded question, and now you're playing all innocent and pretending to be offended by the term "smartguy"?

Anyway, it's clear that Ford has much more support on the labour issue than on the transit issue. He has all of the right and most of the middle working with him to fight the unions. Transit, on the other hand, was a very divisive issue for the right. It pinned fiscal conservatism against pro-car sentiment. The opposite can be said for Miller. The labour dispute split the left, whereas Transit city allowed Miller to spread infrastructure money around the suburbs, winning over would-be opponents.

I'd say it's more of a matter of political calculus at work here. If you're looking for direct comparisons of personality or leadership ability between Ford and Miller, it would be best to focus on their immediate roles within each of the issues. Ford was not part of the negotiating team, but I'm sure his sheer stubbornness and ideological purity helped tip things in his favour. Yet this same quality also completely alienated any support he had during the transit debate.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Hahaha new one (does Rob Ford have a woman problem?) for you anti-Ford/trash-talking eccentrics to blab about...watch what you say..he may be gay

If he's gay, how far in the closet is he that he doesn't want to go to Gay Pride? More likely, from the sounds of it, he has major shyness issues, a rocky marriage, and a problem with keeping his mouth shut when he's drinking. Perfect combination to be distrusted by women, wouldn't you say?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Ford voters nothing if not loyal.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...to/ford-voters-one-year-later/article2386370/

I must admit I'm surprised to see no one actually jump ship, although agreeing to be interviewed by a paper must mean you are sure about your vote.

However, I LOVE the accountant (sure you are, pal) who sticks up for Ford, pans all of his critics, worries about his health... and says the Eglinton LRT will make transit worse. Doesn't seem to think the cost of subways is worth even commenting upon.

 

[Torontovibe]

^^ What's frustrating is that you have a well educated guy (I'm assuming) like the accountant, who lives in Scarborough, and he says he backs Ford's subway along Eglinton. Does he not realize that Ford did not propose a subway along Eglinton? It will be an LRT line, not a subway. How can someone who I assume has a university degree and seems to be politically involved (and lives in Scarborough) not know something as basic as that? After so much public discussion about public transit, how can people still be so confused unless they are really mentally challenged?

Sometimes I just have to scratch my head and wonder how people can be so easily deceived. It's not like the correct information isn't out there. It seems if Ford keeps calling the Eglinton line a subway, enough times, people will just blindly believe it.

 

[freshcutgrass]

What's frustrating is that you have a well educated guy (I'm assuming) like the accountant, who lives in Scarborough, and he says he backs Ford's subway along Eglinton. Does he not realize that Ford did not propose a subway along Eglinton? It will be an LRT line, not a subway.

In the Ford Universe, anything that runs underground is a "subway", and an "LRT" runs on the surface (and takes up lanes that could be used for cars).

How can someone who I assume has a university degree and seems to be politically involved (and lives in Scarborough) not know something as basic as that? After so much public discussion about public transit, how can people still be so confused unless they are really mentally challenged?

Sometimes I just have to scratch my head and wonder how people can be so easily deceived. It's not like the correct information isn't out there. It seems if Ford keeps calling the Eglinton line a subway, enough times, people will just blindly believe it.

He also calls LRTs "streetcars".

You can't put all the blame on Ford, as Toronto's collection of streetcars, heavy rail subways, SRT and LRT is a bit confusing for the average person to sort out, making them easy to manipulate.

 

[neubilder]

Curious as to why a pro-union mayor (Miller) had the long garbage strike. And an anti-union mayor (Ford) has been able to settle all these contract talks with minimal disruption of service, usually with no strike at all.

Wouldn't you expect a pro-union mayor to not have unions striking and and anti-union mayor having all the unions against him?

What's going on here? Why haven't we seen angry inconvenient drawn-out strikes when contracts have come up for renegotiation under Ford?

Now I know Ford's really fat and therefore a moron because fat people are stupid (as this thread compellingly argues) but surely there's got to be some other explanation?

Why have the unions given Ford such an easy ride. And why were they so hard on Miller?

Still can't answer the simple question, "Why no stikes under Ford if he's so anti union? Why long strike under pro-union Miller?"

Sounds more like facetious spouting-off than a "simple question" to me.

 

[DanTheMan]

Curious as to why a pro-union mayor (Miller) had the long garbage strike. And an anti-union mayor (Ford) has been able to settle all these contract talks with minimal disruption of service, usually with no strike at all.

Wouldn't you expect a pro-union mayor to not have unions striking and and anti-union mayor having all the unions against him?

What's going on here? Why haven't we seen angry inconvenient drawn-out strikes when contracts have come up for renegotiation under Ford?

Now I know Ford's really fat and therefore a moron because fat people are stupid (as this thread compellingly argues) but surely there's got to be some other explanation?

Why have the unions given Ford such an easy ride. And why were they so hard on Miller?

I think Ford and Co. benfited from a general feeling of anti-union sentiment in the public. CUPE was well aware of this and did what it could this round to just bite the bullet and hope for a more labour friendly environment next round.

I will say however that as for 416, most in the union actually got a pretty good deal, there were a few concessions but any major job losses or benefit clawbacks were avoided.
That being said, Paramedics were taken to the cleaners and lost 30yrs of contract gains to make sure the rest of the union kept their jobs. Unfortunately, come time to vote for ratification, our measly 1000 votes mean nothing against the rest of the local and they can pretty much do whatever they please.

 

[nfitz]

If he's gay, how far in the closet is he that he doesn't want to go to Gay Pride? More likely, from the sounds of it, he has major shyness issues, a rocky marriage, and a problem with keeping his mouth shut when he's drinking. Perfect combination to be distrusted by women, wouldn't you say?

I've always assumed that Rob Ford is gay, and so deeply in the closet that he perhaps hasn't come out to himself yet.

To be a homophobe is one thing, but he seems downright fearful of gays ... and such a combination of fear and hatred seems so bizarre that I can't think of another explanation. Sounds like one of those fire & brimstone southern preachers or politicians who is then caught in some scandal doing exactly what he has been preaching against all these years. I wouldn't be surprised to see photographs published one day of Rob Ford and Rick Santorum in some love nest one day.

 

[nfitz]

You can't put all the blame on Ford, as Toronto's collection of streetcars, heavy rail subways, SRT and LRT is a bit confusing for the average person to sort out, making them easy to manipulate.

Given that TTC has been interchangeably been calling both the current and future vehicles streetcars and LRVs for decades, then that is no surprise.

 

[Hipster Duck]

^^ What's frustrating is that you have a well educated guy (I'm assuming) like the accountant, who lives in Scarborough, and he says he backs Ford's subway along Eglinton. Does he not realize that Ford did not propose a subway along Eglinton?

The old saying "just because somebody went to school doesn't make them wise" is pretty obvious in the profiles of those people.

One lady describes her political position as a "conservative liberal", for christ's sake.

The only person who seems remotely intelligent in that group of 5 is the medical student who is a conservative, but a thinking one: he makes the good point that you shouldn't vote for people but for their policies and their ability to execute their ideas. He also is, not surprisingly, the only one who really seems to be rethinking his vote in 2014.

The problem with too many people is that they have allegiance to political parties and politicians the same way they show allegiance to sports teams. In sports, your team could be perennial losers packed with goons who play dirty and have a terrible coach, but you're still going to dress in team colours, and paint your face and cheer them on. Of course, unlike politics, this is perfectly okay because whether your team wins some championship trophy is not going to have a direct bearing on you or your children's quality of life.