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Rob Ford's Toronto

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kaboi said:
Has the Crown actually spoken up? Dave Seglins is tweeting that they have (several tweets now) but the article he links to makes no mention of the Crown advising against charges. Assume this will be coming shortly?
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At least one outlet (680news) is saying they haven't heard from the Crown yet.
 
This can't be the end. There has to be more to it, right?

More evidence leading to other charges?

Something coming to light now that Foulidis gets to sue Ford for defamation after all?

Yes?
 
DufferinMallrat said:
… Something really needs to happen to shake that dynamic up, and I personally think the other candidates have nothing to lose by being as harsh as possible because he needs to be rattled and knocked off message.
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Something will happen in this campaign, and that something will happen a lot. The timeline of Ford's offences will be kept before the public. Some of us will make sure that happens :) Oh, and a very viable alternative will present itself to the voting public and the voting public will put that very viable alternative into office.

It is highly unlikely that Rob Ford will win reelection.
 
Also why were "Rob's people" (according to Elena Basso) at her house every day after the crack video was made public? What people is she referring to? What are they hiding?

'Another unknown male on the call says he's trying to "get off" and warns the "hood's going to get raided because Rob Ford 'is going mad.'"' So that's curious...Traveller happens because of Rob Ford and then he gets caught in it?
 
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Remember the OPP is there for oversight not investigation ...from G&M..."Everything that was there when we were called in was before the courts in some way, shape or form, so therefore there was nothing for us to do and there was no new information" "If anything new does come forward and we're requested then we'll look at it" Sgt Pierre Chamberland
Seems to me it is still TPS and The Crown that will make a prosecution call..the OPP is there for a wink and a nod...
 
blixtex said:
When the Chief of Toronto Police specifically asks the OPP to oversee the investigation due to taking "steps to avoid distractions" for the courts and investigation (this is basically admitting it's political), and the OPP explicitly comes up with a 180 degree reason disputing the Theory Toronto Police are presenting, this whole thing will get laughed out of the courts. If there are this many holes at the ground level, it will never stand up at the Court level.

The OPP has basically come up with a defense for Ford, which the Toronto Police and Crown cannot ignore.

Chief Bill Blair will not be able to take back oversight, which there is now no alternative, after rec using himself without really compromising the whole thing.

The "No new Evidence" is the angle being overplayed here since that was not in the original reasoning why the OPP assumed oversight of this investigation. Basically, those who thought the OPP were going to be even more harsher on Ford has backfired :D

Sure, the OPP isn't perfect, but seeing the way they enforce highway laws, they generally follow things by the book compared to the Big City cover-up, political force that is the TPS. They saw basic logic here.. two extortionist threatening each other, the first one is the instigator. Why is the TPS only targeting the reacting extortionist.
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Yeah....all true, but that still doesn't exonerate either extortionist, does it?

I don't think, "5 of us committed crimes but you only arrested 3 of us!" is a viable defense, is it?

I guess they can still go back and find stuff on those guys...reading the ITOs, it really is amazing to consider how they could have so much circumstantial evidence and not a single shred of actual proof. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest (just hypothetically) that Ford is actually guilty and most certainly was involved in Lisi trying to get the video. In that case, how is it possible the best, most skilled and experienced detectives in the city couldn't get a single person to testify that? Not the Bassos, not the gang members, not Lisi....I am not accusing them of incompetence because it's not clear what the answer is right now and I suspect they're pissed as hell (as opposed to Giroux sitting there going, "Well, we tried and he's just too clever!") but, holy jeeze....how did he get away with this?

Also: How is the OPP chief spilling his guts to Warmington any better than Bill Blair's "Disappointed" comment? Surely Thug is filing a complaint about that one too, right?

requiem said:
Also why were "Rob's people" (according to Elena Basso) at her house every day after the crack video was made public? What people is she referring to? What are they hiding?

'Another unknown male on the call says he's trying to "get off" and warns the "hood's going to get raided because Rob Ford 'is going mad.'"' So that's curious...Traveller happens because of Rob Ford and then he gets caught in it?
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No - Traveller was looking into the gang and Ford stumbled into their world. Brazen 2 was started after the crack video news broke but clearly the cops already knew something was going on there.
 
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TonyV said:
...

Ford is looking even more petty and vindictive than usual, now. He really did vote against commemorating Mandela, and he voted against a congratulation to our olympians … I'm not buying for one moment that Ford pressed the wrong button, but rather I'm buying Adam Vaughan's explanation instead: Ford did it on purpose. Otherwise Ford is just plain incompetent; 40 other councillors hit the right button twice, whilst Ford erred twice.

...
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Small bit of context from someone who spends way too much time (and loses much sanity/sleep from) watching council proceedings.

Ford's default position on Council is contrarian, but is generally rooted in the idea that no money should be spent by Council. He votes against any measure, however noble or minor, that involves an expenditure and does not fit within his personal crusades (e.g. subways, etc.). He's been the lone "no" vote, or is paired with his brother/Mammo, on the strangest things - random acknowledgements, procedural matters, small grassroots efforts.

As a result, he votes "no" the majority of the time, and regularly votes based not on the content of the motion/item, but on the heading or the name of the "tax and spend" individual who's moved it. It's easier for an ideologue than actually considering the issues and becoming informed.

I'd wager that these motions were no different. As much as we may be loathe to give him benefit of the doubt, I'd imagine he voted based on his default willful ignorance of what he was voting on.

The very fact that there is a question of whether his vote was based on disdain or incompetence is a sad state of affairs. Sadder still is contemplating whether the difference even matters.
 
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DufferinMallrat said:
Keeping things in perspective here, the best thing we can say about RF is that he's not currently facing criminal charges. That's an incredibly low bar for a top politician, but he has lowered our expectations of him so far that he is now at the point where he can literally get away with almost anything. Flip off a mother and child? Go for it! Down a large quantity of booze and drive? We got your back buddy! When I distance myself from the emotional involvement I have in this city, I have to admit that it really is quite fascinating.

We all know he has dirty hands in all of this for sure, but the evidence appears to not be there yet, and will possibly never be. What's more, it is extremely plausible that he will win reelection. The campaign has only just started and it is shaping up a lot like the last one - with Ford defining all the terms of the debates and sticking to his asinine yet effective messages. Something really needs to happen to shake that dynamic up, and I personally think the other candidates have nothing to lose by being as harsh as possible because he needs to be rattled and knocked off message.
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I think given what Ford's been through these past 4 years, I highly doubt a few 'weak' candidates can do anything to rattle him. The first debate, everybody just seemed so edgy, nervous, not sure, etc but you could see that it was a cakewalk for Ford. That look of "whew, after what I've been through, this is a breeze".

The other big issue is that candidates will start running out of money, so it's hard to stay in and be effective until the end. Ford, like any incumbent, has the benefit of being in office already, and thus already having a platform, and resources (Bush Jr, Obama clearly got that benefit during their re-election). Add to that his hardcore supporters who will not waver, Ford will be there until the end. Chow is the only one who will have the staying power, and the smart money is on her tripping up in the months ahead.
 
blixtex said:
They saw basic logic here.. two extortionist threatening each other, the first one is the instigator. Why is the TPS only targeting the reacting extortionist.
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I still fail to see how this means that both extortionists get off without charges.

If I am a drug dealer, and then someone comes with a gun and robs me of my money and drugs. He committed a crime.

I got stick him up and take it all back. I committed a crime.

There's no "take-backsies" in the criminal code. Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
No - Traveller was looking into the gang and Ford stumbled into their world. Brazen 2 was started after the crack video news broke but clearly the cops already knew something was going on there.
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My point is that in May, prior to the Traveller bust, Lisi was threatening gang members with "the heat" and "dirty cops," and there was a woman filmed that morning screaming that the raid was about Ford. Was Lisi bluffing and Traveller was being planned independently all along?
 
TonyV said:
Something will happen in this campaign, and that something will happen a lot. The timeline of Ford's offences will be kept before the public. Some of us will make sure that happens :) Oh, and a very viable alternative will present itself to the voting public and the voting public will put that very viable alternative into office.

It is highly unlikely that Rob Ford will win reelection.
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whatchootalkinboutwillis?

A viable alternative? The thing I just scraped off of my shoe is a viable alternative.
 
SO is the official story for the history books the following? Sandro Lisi acted entirely on his own accord to retrieve the crack video, simply because he felt like it was the right thing to do for his friend and employer?
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Also: How is the OPP chief spilling his guts to Warmington any better than Bill Blair's "Disappointed" comment? Surely Thug is filing a complaint about that one too, right?
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I'm not sure about the spilling guts (my understanding is, he's leaving, and just talking about what's done), but the difference is Blair made a emotional personally directed comment on an ongoing, specific case, while having a press conference on that specific and official investigation. That emotional judgement can easily be construed as possibly and or likely overtaking any objective logic that must be followed in an ongoing investigation.
 
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