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Rob Ford's Toronto

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anonymoose said:
I think you are omitting the fact that, rightly or wrongly, some conservatives perceive Wikipedia to have a liberal bias, which doesn't fit with your narrative above.
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Hang on though, when you say "conservatives" and you give examples of "creationism" "criticism of the theory of relativity" and "a proven link between abortion and breast cancer" your not talking Conservatism. Your talking ultra-right wingnuts. So yes, they probably DO see a liberal bias. They also probably think that George W. Bush was too liberal! I'd expect that Marxists would see Jack Layton as too conservative.
 
Yeah, I deleted my post because I (probably wrongly) assumed Johnny Au was trying to claim that Wikipedia was a haven for Ford Nation, which would be ironic since some claim that Wikipedia is the "liberal encyclopedia".

And you're right, I should've said far-right wing instead of "conservative".
 
jje1000 said:
Why would they imagine corruption as a positive thing? Is it the way they had to operate by in their home countries? Pakistan, India and the Phillipines aren't exactly known for their corruption-free governments. It's a tremendously slippery slope- sure, everyone hates bureaucracy, but if everyone's cutting in front, what's the point of it anymore? What's to stop me from going up to Ford and offering a campaign donation in exchange for my problems being fixed first? What's to stop someone like Ford asking for my vote in exchange for my problems to be fixed?

IMO the key to solving these problems is a more efficient bureaucracy and a better understanding of the ways of using the systems and tools that the government provides for us, not skirting the rules and looking for favours. The way Ford operates isn't the same as going back to the 90s.
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Both the established order of pro-Ford (mostly) whites and recent arrivals from less ethically scrupulous places see City Hall as existing solely to impose meddlesome bureaucracy on them as they seek either to rely on pre-existing privilege or be exempted from rules and procedure because they wish they were otherwise.

It's like the rules count only if they get to make them.

Just the other day on Twitter, Fordite troll moron @ejb__ asked George Sawision (perennial no-hoper council candidate and all-round weasel who sees an NDP conspiracy in everything) whether, if elected (ha!), he would force stores to be either all open or all closed on Sundays, just because she was too stupid/lazy/entitled to pick up the phone or look at a website to check store hours before leaving the house.
 
I think that there definitely is a correlation between being an immigrant and supporting Rob Ford.

Firstly, to zang, I think that the idea that visible minorities are immigrants and white people are not immigrants is not necessarily accurate in our city anymore. There is a very fast growing population of people who are both visible minorities and Canadian and who are not immigrants, whose native language is English and culture is Canadian (ex. Chinese-Canadians who were born here). There are also many large groups of white immigrants: from Russia & eastern Europe, and increasingly from places like Ireland where the economy isn't doing well.

This article rings true to me:
http://www.torontolife.com/informer/features/2014/02/13/chinese-immigrant-parents-vote-rob-ford/

Firstly, I believe it is true that those who live in Old Toronto, East York, and York tend to be Canadian-born people (of all races), and that those who live in North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke tend to be immigrants. This urban-suburban divide tends to correlate to car-ownership as well as Ford support.

Ford's extremely simple messages such as "lower taxes" and "subways instead of streetcars" spread well in communities that don't speak english well. Any political message that requires complexity to express tends to get lost in translation. People who live in these areas tend to love ideas such as lowering taxes (whether it's true or not) and eliminating the vehicle registration tax. They often don't care about anything else other than the government taking less money from them.
 
Johnny Au said:
I remembered one time when a Ford Nation troll keeps citing Wikipedia.

It is interesting to know that in North America, Wikipedia is liberally biased, while in Europe, Wikipedia is conservatively biased.
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Europe is largely conservative by nature

Eastern europe and rising segments of western Europe have been trending towards conservatism and see immigrations and multiculturalism as failures.
 
the lemur said:
Just the other day on Twitter, Fordite troll moron @ejb__ asked George Sawision (perennial no-hoper council candidate and all-round weasel who sees an NDP conspiracy in everything) whether, if elected (ha!), he would force stores to be either all open or all closed on Sundays, just because she was too stupid/lazy/entitled to pick up the phone or look at a website to check store hours before leaving the house.
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Even more evidence of @ejb__'s lazy ignorance is that it's the province that legislated an end to Sunday shopping bans.
 
jusbokeh said:
Europe is largely conservative by nature

Eastern europe and rising segments of western Europe have been trending towards conservatism and see immigrations and multiculturalism as failures.
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That's true, though cities tend to be as liberal, or even more than cities in North America. Overall, Europe isn't the progressive paradise that people make it out to be as it has liberal and conservative elements like any place in the world. This is why I caution people against moving out if Ford gets reelected- you'll find the same people in any place you move to. Immigration in Europe is also less of a success than the Americas in terms of integration. We have it much better in Canada because of the climate, the presence of the US as a larger magnet and three oceans separating us from Eurasia.

That being said, Ford is still worse in my opinion than a large number of Western politicans, so comparing us to Europe doesn't make Toronto look any better.
 
ehlow said:
People who live in these areas tend to love ideas such as lowering taxes (whether it's true or not) and eliminating the vehicle registration tax. They often don't care about anything else other than the government taking less money from them.
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I don't think that's true. I think a lot of immigrants aren't particularly ideological. They care about basic things: lower taxes, but also better services that they rely on. Polls have shown that immigrants place high value on health care and education. For many, those services are the main reason they chose to move to Canada.

That's why the outcome of the upcoming election will depend greatly on how the debate is framed. Miller came to power in the aftermath of the MFP scandal and post-amalgamation financial chaos. He was widely popular despite promising to raise taxes by 3% every year. Taxes weren't people's top priority. However, the 2010 election was all about taxes and Ford was best placed to take advantage.
 
the lemur said:
Just the other day on Twitter, Fordite troll moron @ejb__ asked George Sawision (perennial no-hoper council candidate and all-round weasel who sees an NDP conspiracy in everything) whether, if elected (ha!), he would force stores to be either all open or all closed on Sundays, just because she was too stupid/lazy/entitled to pick up the phone or look at a website to check store hours before leaving the house.
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ejb_ actually leaves the house???!!?? :eek: :p
 
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