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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Originally Posted by spider
I guess Aurora must have separated from Ontario, Walmart bags and double bags everything in plastic with no Fees in sight.

The reply...

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

All the major grocery chains in the GTA charge the 5 cent fee.

If my personal experience at the Aurora Walmart is to be dismissed as "anecdotal" can we assume that you have not only made purchases at every single major grocery store in the GTA and, this is important, have photographs and witness statements all duly notarised. If not, I suggest that your statement is truly "anecdotal".

A cursory search of my workshop/office yields a variety of imprinted plastic bags from stores all over the GTA but outside of Toronto proper, I have never been asked to pay for any of them.

I understand that much of the content of the Bible is anecdotal but it still commands respect in most quarters.
 
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A cursory search of my workshop/office yields a variety of imprinted plastic bags from stores all over the GTA but outside of Toronto proper, I have never been asked to pay for any of them.
I'd be curious to learn what stores.

[http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/06/03/f-plastic-bag-tax.html

For its part, Loblaws had already begun to charge five cents for bags in Toronto in January 2009 and in the rest of the country in April 2009.

Metro has been charging five cents per bag at its stores in Ontario and Quebec since June 1, 2009 a

I'm also fairly certain that Sobeys, No Frills, and Fresh Co. all have the bag fee, as well. Can't find an article, though.

ETA
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/sueann_levy/2010/08/03/14913386.html

Loblaws, Ikea, Rona and Home Depot are just a few of the chain stores 5¢ for bags right across the country. Sobeys charges the fee at all Ontario stores.

Shopper's Drug Mart rolled out the fee July 1 to all stores in Ontario, the western provinces and the Territories, driven in part by the response of customers, said spokesman Tammy Smitham.

So yeah, I would say that with all those major retailers covered, the plastic bag tax is pretty much standard.
 
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Fine, I will corroborate wopchop's position as I have been charged a fee for plastic bags in all of the places he mentioned and am prepared to present signed affidavits by the next customer in line at each location.
 
I've been charged in Burlington at Fortinos, Sobeys, Loblaws. Not at Longos, though.

I can understand how people who frequent Wal-Mart in Aurora might have a slightly different worldview than the rest of us.
 
Although I haven't been shopping in Aurora lately, I have definitely paid the bag fee any time I have forgotten or run out of my reusable bags. Personally, I think the fee should be higher.
 
I think the bag tax has been a complete success. People that were using plastic grocery bags in their hundreds are now using reusable bags. Perfect. Why is this a bad thing? As it is, the tax is small enough to not be a major financial burden, but still seems to be annoying enough that most people consider switching to reusable bags. Maybe re-directing where the tax goes would be wise, but I don't think scrapping the tax is the answer.

It's not a tax, it's a mandatory fee. Turning it into a tax would be a huge headache both for retailers and the city. The five cents should go to cover the cost of the bag itself (instead of tacking the price of bags on to other merchandise, which is why the major chains have mostly gotten behind the fee). Any profits should, ideally, go back into the community. Several chains, I believe, do donate this money to green initiatives, etc.

EDIT: I don't think the city has the power to impose a tax on consumption anyways.

I'm also fairly certain that Sobeys, No Frills, and Fresh Co. all have the bag fee, as well. Can't find an article, though.

Hasn't No Frills always charged for bags? Ditto PriceChopper/Fresh Co.?

Scrapping the mandatory fee would just be a huge waste of time right now, more an attack on the legacy of the Miller era than anything substantive. I doubt people, who've adapted fairly well to the fee, really care all that much about it. At the end of the day, it is a program that's both friendly to business and the environment - providing a level playing field for retailers while minimizing the amount of grocery bags caught in trees, floating in the lake, etc.
 
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It's not a tax, it's a mandatory fee. Turning it into a tax would be a huge headache both for retailers and the city. The five cents should go to cover the cost of the bag itself (instead of tacking the price of bags on to other merchandise, which is why the major chains have mostly gotten behind the fee). Any profits should, ideally, go back into the community. Several chains, I believe, do donate this money to green initiatives, etc.

EDIT: I don't think the city has the power to impose a tax on consumption anyways.c.
Absolutely right. My use of the word tax was misplaced, and wasn't meant to imply that it actually was a tax. I suppose that I've let Rob Ford win the word war for the framing of the debate. I'll make sure to be more precise!

I do think that No Frills has always charged for the bag. Not sure about Price Chopper and Fresh Co. Probably.
 
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The discount chains have *always* charged for bags--that's why they have all the cardboard boxes at the front behind the cashiers. They were reuse/reduce/recycle before it was cool (or more properly, dating back to when it was *originally* cool, as a 70s-esque "environmental" gesture. Same reason why No Frills had much more of a bulk-food angle t/w the beginning, Bulk Barn being a spinoff of all that.)

Oh, one place which doesn't charge for bags: Starskys, the Polish grocer in Mississauga.
 
Bag fee isn't going anywhere. The chains will continue charging for bags - there are chains that started charging in places as far away as BC at the time the Toronto bylaw went in.

The smaller retailers seem to generally not charge for bags anyways, particularly if you're a regular. It's an empty populist gesture, akin to the car tax, to boost the Mayor's ratings before they tackle the budget disaster.

I've been on that road on many occasions riding the bus. I actually haven't seen one person on a bike. Where are these hordes you seem to be hinting at? I'm there mid day/night. I've seen no on a bike.

I live one block off Vaughan Rd and use the bike lane daily. It's well used. On Saturday I drove south the km or so between Oakwood and Maplewood and had to dodge FIVE cyclists, who are in mixed traffic as there is no southbound lane.
 
I think Bob and Doug have opened up a big can of worms here with regards to the 5c plastic bag fee. They have erroneously been calling it a tax for so long (mostly in order to discredit Miller) that most people actually believe it is a government collected tax. I'm picturing many angry confrontations at the cash register when people realize they're still being charged after the mandatory collection is rescinded.

In the end he's either going to have to fess up and admit to his worshippers that it wasn't a tax after all or somehow convince council to not only rescind the fee but also to prohibit its collection.
 
Here’s the red tape report that’s being bandied about today. Check out the ‘balanced’ advisory panel they sought out. And also its idea to sell off strategic infrastructure in order to build a casino to pay down debt, and invest in strategic infrastructure and pay for social services (of which there will be an increased need from the casino). Also, who the hell wants to live/work beside a casino? How is that effective redevelopment?


http://www.toronto.ca/business_publications/pdf/path_for_growth.pdf
 
At Ford National Railway's Family Compact Station, change from the Gravy Train to the Nepotism Express.


Jim Flaherty’s son joins Fords at City Hall

Toronto Star
Excerpt:

Published On Fri May 27 2011

David Rider Urban Affairs Bureau Chief

Councillor Doug Ford has hired federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty’s son, Galen, as a summer student, forging a new link in the close, mutually beneficial friendship between the conservative families.

“It’s a good power team, I’ll tell you that,” Ford said with a chuckle of the 16-year relationship that started when his late father, Douglas Sr., bonded with fellow rookie Conservative MPP Jim Flaherty.

Over the years, Doug Jr., his mayor brother Rob and other Fords have pitched in to help the campaigns of Flaherty and his wife, Whitby-Oshawa Conservative MPP Christine Elliott.

The Flahertys have returned the political favours, helping the Fords grab the wheel at Toronto City Hall to give it a sharp turn to the right.

Galen, one of Flaherty’s 20-year-old triplet sons, “just asked me one day, ‘Do you need any help downtown’ ” at City Hall, Ford said. “I didn’t even talk to his dad about it — I just said sure. I strongly believe in hiring students and I encourage all councillors to do it, as well as private businesses.”
 
Here’s the red tape report that’s being bandied about today. Check out the ‘balanced’ advisory panel they sought out. And also its idea to sell off strategic infrastructure in order to build a casino to pay down debt, and invest in strategic infrastructure and pay for social services (of which there will be an increased need from the casino). Also, who the hell wants to live/work beside a casino? How is that effective redevelopment?


http://www.toronto.ca/business_publications/pdf/path_for_growth.pdf

Our government already runs liquor and gambling, and nobody seems to question the conflict of interest so what's the big deal?
 
There's nothing wrong with a casino. As long as its designed to fit in the area where its built, I'm fine with that idea. If the city is allowed to keep the proceeds, then we'll have a cash cow that can help fund infrastructure. It would also bring jobs and tourism to Toronto. I'm all for it.
 
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