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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Tulse said:
I'm not convinced they really care about it now, except as a way of expressing political grievance. Has there really been a grass-roots campaign for better mass transit in Scarborough, or is this just about a perception of the "elites" not respecting the suburbs, and keeping trolleys off of the streets?
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Well said......

According to NOW Magazine, 400 million of the original 1.4 billion provincial contribution is for modifications to Kennedy Station to accommodate the Eglinton Crosstown line. Unless they cancel that line, the provincial money comes up well short of what council voted on yesterday....

http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=193613
 
Peepers said:
I doubt that the many people who contributed to this fund realized that their money could wind up going to an organization such as the Somali Canadian Association of Etobicoke.
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I am very familiar with Unison Community Services and South Riverdale Community Health Centre, and can say from experience that their programs and operations are as clean as a whistle. I am unfamiliar with the Somali Canadian Association but according to their website they do offer settlement services, health and wellness workshops and youth programs.
 
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mjl08 said:
I am very familiar with Unison Community Services and South Riverdale Community Health Centre, and can say from experience that their programs and operations are as clean as a whistle. I am unfamiliar with the Somali Canadian Association but according to their website they do offer settlement services, health and wellness workshops and youth programs.
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That's what they claim but I note that they are not a registered charity so there is no way to know where they are getting their money and what they are doing with this money. On their website there is no link to audited financial statements. I would not give any money to an organization that purports to be a charity but does not provide audited financial statements. As an example UNISON appears to be legit. On their website they provide link to yearly reports with copy of an independent auditor's signed report attesting to the financials. http://unisonhcs.org/fileadmin/doc/annual_report/Unison-AR1011-web.pdf
 
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guitarchitect said:
It's one thing to support the bigoted views - but it's entirely another to support their political agenda and economic policies independent of their views.
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I disagree. Given how utterly evil and immoral the views are, I think that supporting a bigot or racist simply because you like their economic policy is wrong. Would you support Stalin because he increased minimum wage and built lots of subway lines?

guitarchitect said:
What I'm saying is that you're allowed to support the politician without supporting the person. It's the same reason you can support, say, Bill Clinton but be fully and totally against extramarital affairs. Just because you think he's a good president it doesn't mean you condone and support cheating on one's wife.
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It's not comparable. Clinton indicated that what he did was wrong, and was apologetic. If Ford were to do that, then by all means support him.

Though quite frankly, if a politician is really that incapable of keeping it in his pants, I think that's a good reason not to vote for him. It's an indication of a lack of self-control and immorality, neither of which is what we want in our civic leaders.
 
nfitz said:
I disagree. Given how utterly evil and immoral the views are, I think that supporting a bigot or racist simply because you like their economic policy is wrong. Would you support Stalin because he increased minimum wage and built lots of subway lines?
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It depends. Was he running against someone equally brutal and immoral who would not have raised minimum wage or built any subway lines?

I put up with defects in candidates so long as they are shared by all serious contenders. Obviously this doesn't help Rob Ford's case in the slightest.
 
nfitz said:
I disagree. Given how utterly evil and immoral the views are, I think that supporting a bigot or racist simply because you like their economic policy is wrong. Would you support Stalin because he increased minimum wage and built lots of subway lines?
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Well, at least you didn't easy Hitler.
 
nfitz said:
I disagree. Given how utterly evil and immoral the views are, I think that supporting a bigot or racist simply because you like their economic policy is wrong. Would you support Stalin because he increased minimum wage and built lots of subway lines?
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Eug said:
Well, at least you didn't easy Hitler.
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Did you know that there are some Jews who drive a Volkswagen, despite the fact that Hitler created the Volkswagen?
 
nfitz said:
I disagree. Given how utterly evil and immoral the views are, I think that supporting a bigot or racist simply because you like their economic policy is wrong. Would you support Stalin because he increased minimum wage and built lots of subway lines?
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We're not talking about Stalin here. We're talking about Ford and Clinton, and comparing either of them to Stalin, who killed millions of people, is just absurd.

It's like saying "What? You think its OK to be friends with someone who has different political views than you? So you'd be OK paling around with Hitler?" No, that's just not a comparison.

It's not comparable. Clinton indicated that what he did was wrong, and was apologetic. If Ford were to do that, then by all means support him.
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Well, I'll bring Obama back up. Are the millions of Americans who voted for Obama the first time around all homophobes and bigots?
 
CowboyLogic said:
We're not talking about Stalin here. We're talking about Ford and Clinton, and comparing either of them to Stalin, who killed millions of people, is just absurd.
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Are you saying that death of only a few or one is insignificant?

It's like saying "What? You think its OK to be friends with someone who has different political views than you? So you'd be OK paling around with Hitler?" No, that's just not a comparison.
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Huh? I know a few people that don't share my politics, never had a problem with it, nor do they. If you want to talk an ideology, try not to toss in sociopathic behaviour.

Well, I'll bring Obama back up. Are the millions of Americans who voted for Obama the first time around all homophobes and bigots?
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They may be, I don't know why people voted for him, but they did. Since this is Canada... say it with me... C-A-N-A-D-A... maybe you should be making the comparisons to Harper
 
If one wants to compare RF to these notorious 20th c. autocrats, it wouldn't be on the basis of the magnitude of their acts or the sheer evil of their ideology and action - they are utterly incomparable. One area that can be justifiably compared is the cult of personalty around these quasi-populist figures and the underlying context and soft techniques - in particular rhetoric and identification of enemies - utilized to gain power.

AoD
 
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