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Rob Ford's Toronto

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What matters more is that the opposition, especially the Star, has allowed this to happen- the opposition are mainly the ones who bungled this whole thing.

Glad someone is finally saying this.

Here's a little anecdote.

I'm a Ford supporter, as anyone here who's read my posts knows. However, all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts. They take any and every opportunity to bash Ford for whatever, whether its his policies or his weight or his apparent intellect. You get the idea.

And yet...not one person I know (excluding myself) actually believed the crack allegations. Why? They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford. These are all people that despise the man.

Here's the thing: it does seem clear, when you look into the evidence and details, that there was something to the allegations. But guess what? Most people don't look into the details or spend hours a day discussing these issues like some of the members here do.

And for a lot of people - Ford supporters and detractors alike - the Star has lost credibility when it comes to the Mayor because of the way they've conducted themselves. For every real controversy, there has been several manufactured controversies (remember the magnet issue?). They've published articles which mock him for his weight, TMZ-style videos of the Mayor in his personal life (like that KFC video), fictitious stories with no subsequent retraction (ala Ford assaulted a kid), incredibly biased and misleading reporting (I remember them, during the last campaign, publishing the results of a poll which showed Ford was losing traction...which was three weeks old by that point) and political cartoons unparalleled in their viciousness.

Quite simply, the Star is the newspaper that cried "Wolf!". They have lost a lot of credibility and trust, whether you guys want to admit it or not. When half the city, well above what constitutes Ford Nation or even Ford supporters, doesn't believe the Star's allegations, its for a reason.

If it wasn't for the unprecedented campaign against him, the crack allegations would have sunk Ford. Fortunately, the Star's past conduct bungled this entire thing for them.
 
Glad someone is finally saying this.

Here's a little anecdote.

I'm a Ford supporter, as anyone here who's read my posts knows. However, all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts. They take any and every opportunity to bash Ford for whatever, whether its his policies or his weight or his apparent intellect. You get the idea.

And yet...not one person I know (excluding myself) actually believed the crack allegations. Why? They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford. These are all people that despise the man.

Here's the thing: it does seem clear, when you look into the evidence and details, that there was something to the allegations. But guess what? Most people don't look into the details or spend hours a day discussing these issues like some of the members here do.

And for a lot of people - Ford supporters and detractors alike - the Star has lost credibility when it comes to the Mayor because of the way they've conducted themselves. For every real controversy, there has been several manufactured controversies (remember the magnet issue?). They've published articles which mock him for his weight, TMZ-style videos of the Mayor in his personal life (like that KFC video), fictitious stories with no subsequent retraction (ala Ford assaulted a kid), incredibly biased and misleading reporting (I remember them, during the last campaign, publishing the results of a poll which showed Ford was losing traction...which was three weeks old by that point) and political cartoons unparalleled in their viciousness.

Quite simply, the Star is the newspaper that cried "Wolf!". They have lost a lot of credibility and trust, whether you guys want to admit it or not. When half the city, well above what constitutes Ford Nation or even Ford supporters, doesn't believe the Star's allegations, its for a reason.

If it wasn't for the unprecedented campaign against him, the crack allegations would have sunk Ford. Fortunately, the Star's past conduct bungled this entire thing for them.

I've said it again and again, this is the first time you've seen it. However, the problem with the idea that 'The Star is out to get Rob Ford' is that it takes everything and places it in a Conservative viewpoint that everything Ford does is correct. Yes, the KFC video is asinine and their reporting sometimes makes me roll my eyes but most of the time, the Star is simply reporting what happens. It's not that they're targeting him as much as he says, it's that Ford's conduct naturally lends itself to controversy. Look at his handing out of magnets at Peter Worthington's funeral, his self-proclaimed weight-loss attempt (which really brought attention to his weight), the skirting of rules, the half-truths and lies (subways for free, saving billions of dollars) and his vicious and sometimes unsubstantiated attacks and smearing of others. Really, he's the one who brings most of it to himself, and then claims persecution.

Moreso, the Star isn't questioning Ford just because he's conservative. They've criticized Miller in the past (Royson James especially), and were the ones behind revealing ORNGE and EHealth, things that have seriously damaged the provincial Liberal's credibility and chances of reelection. The Sun, I'd say was even more vicious in their attacks on Miller than the Star is on Ford.

Really, I see the Star as the Ying to the Sun and National Post's Yang. The fact that Ford's claim of constant persecution is another of his half-truths, and manufactured by him and Conservative media in this city. It's just too bad that people believe that. But guess what? Most people don't look into the details or spend hours a day discussing these issues like some of the members here do.

Maybe it's a symbol of media cynicism and political detachment that taken hold of the western world today.
 
Glad someone is finally saying this.

Here's a little anecdote.

I'm a Ford supporter, as anyone here who's read my posts knows. However, all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts. They take any and every opportunity to bash Ford for whatever, whether its his policies or his weight or his apparent intellect. You get the idea.

And yet...not one person I know (excluding myself) actually believed the crack allegations. Why? They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford. These are all people that despise the man.

Not *one* person?!?

Then again, that might be like saying "not one person you know" finds this kind of EIFS hack-job an aesthetic crime, and that UTers have it out for EIFS. (Which may be true--and which doesn't say much, from an urban-aesthetic-sensitivity POV, about "everyone you know".)

RosedaleRavineApts_zpsfef097b3.gif~original
 
Glad someone is finally saying this.

Here's a little anecdote.

I'm a Ford supporter, as anyone here who's read my posts knows. However, all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts. They take any and every opportunity to bash Ford for whatever, whether its his policies or his weight or his apparent intellect. You get the idea.

And yet...not one person I know (excluding myself) actually believed the crack allegations. Why? They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford. These are all people that despise the man.
I call bullshit on this little anecdote. Those who are anti-Ford believe that he lies and denies and basically cowers in the corner from the truth, all while not investing any positive effort in his job, and are waiting for the one thing that will stick to him. We are amazed, shocked and disappointed that he has continued to wiggle away from such substantial allegations, where there was a video showing him in action and a published photograph (taken at the house of his drug-abusing high school friends) showing him with people either later murdered or arrested. Hard for me to imagine the conversations where everyone you know tells you how they despise Ford but confides in you (someone who finds any excuse to support him) that they think the Star is out to get him. The Star is the one paper not deferential to a fool because he has the title of Mayor. They are letting us know the simple truth: this is a bad bad mayor who does stupid stupid things.
 
I'm a Ford supporter, as anyone here who's read my posts knows. However, all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts. They take any and every opportunity to bash Ford for whatever, whether its his policies or his weight or his apparent intellect. You get the idea.

And yet...not one person I know (excluding myself) actually believed the crack allegations. Why? They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford. These are all people that despise the man.

c'mon man, do you seriously expect anyone to believe this 'anecdote'?

the premise:

A. you are the only person you know who supports Rob Ford. "all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts".

however:

B. you are the only person you know who believes the crack allegations. all the friends and family members who "despise" him and "hate his guts" think the Star is out to get him. "They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford."

right.

maybe come back and post something after you've a coffee and a donut, or a beer, or whatever it is you use to get your brain going on a Sunday morning. unfortunately for you, the people who post on this thread are not 9 years old. you're going to have to raise your game if you want anyone to pay attention to you.
 
I call bullshit on this little anecdote. Those who are anti-Ford believe that he lies and denies and basically cowers in the corner from the truth, all while not investing any positive effort in his job, and are waiting for the one thing that will stick to him. We are amazed, shocked and disappointed that he has continued to wiggle away from such substantial allegations, where there was a video showing him in action and a published photograph (taken at the house of his drug-abusing high school friends) showing him with people either later murdered or arrested. Hard for me to imagine the conversations where everyone you know tells you how they despise Ford but confides in you (someone who finds any excuse to support him) that they think the Star is out to get him. The Star is the one paper not deferential to a fool because he has the title of Mayor. They are letting us know the simple truth: this is a bad bad mayor who does stupid stupid things.

c'mon man, do you seriously expect anyone to believe this 'anecdote'?

the premise:

A. you are the only person you know who supports Rob Ford. "all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts".

however:

B. you are the only person you know who believes the crack allegations. all the friends and family members who "despise" him and "hate his guts" think the Star is out to get him. "They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford."

right.

maybe come back and post something after you've a coffee and a donut, or a beer, or whatever it is you use to get your brain going on a Sunday morning. unfortunately for you, the people who post on this thread are not 9 years old. you're going to have to raise your game if you want anyone to pay attention to you.

Eh, its the truth. You guys can continue to deny that the Star, whether justified or not in its conduct, has taken a credibility hit, but even if you don't believe my anecdote, the proof is in the polling numbers. Half the city doesn't believe the Star. Ford only has a 40% or so approval rating, yet half the city doesn't believe in the crack allegations.

The vast majority of Torontonians are not constantly amazed, shocked or disappointed by anything to do with Ford - that's only the vast majority of posters on this forum.

As for the credibility of this anecdote, believe whatever you want. I don't live downtown per se, but I live in a typically left-wing ward, so I'm pretty much the only Ford supporter that I personally know. And no one is confiding in me. We discuss politics and disagree politely sometimes, which is apparently a concept so alien to some users here that it sets off their BS-meter.
 
I've said it again and again, this is the first time you've seen it. However, the problem with the idea that 'The Star is out to get Rob Ford' is that it takes everything and places it in a Conservative viewpoint that everything Ford does is correct. Yes, the KFC video is asinine and their reporting sometimes makes me roll my eyes but most of the time, the Star is simply reporting what happens. It's not that they're targeting him as much as he says, it's that Ford's conduct naturally lends itself to controversy. Look at his handing out of magnets at Peter Worthington's funeral, his self-proclaimed weight-loss attempt (which really brought attention to his weight), the skirting of rules, the half-truths and lies (subways for free, saving billions of dollars) and his vicious and sometimes unsubstantiated attacks and smearing of others. Really, he's the one who brings most of it to himself, and then claims persecution.

Moreso, the Star isn't questioning Ford just because he's conservative. They've criticized Miller in the past (Royson James especially), and were the ones behind revealing ORNGE and EHealth, things that have seriously damaged the provincial Liberal's credibility and chances of reelection. The Sun, I'd say was even more vicious in their attacks on Miller than the Star is on Ford.

Really, I see the Star as the Ying to the Sun and National Post's Yang. The fact that Ford's claim of constant persecution is another of his half-truths, and manufactured by him and Conservative media in this city. It's just too bad that people believe that. But guess what? Most people don't look into the details or spend hours a day discussing these issues like some of the members here do.

Maybe it's a symbol of media cynicism and political detachment that taken hold of the western world today.

The Star is definitely justified in some of its reporting and Ford brings much of the controversy on himself - that being said, for every story suitable for print, there's a bunch more that just aren't.

You bring up some good examples of things the Star was justified reporting on (magnets at Worthington's funeral, the weight-loss attempt), but there are plenty of things which they shouldn't have reported on (the KFC video, for instance, as well as placing magnets on cars).

What I take the most umbrage with though is when the Star has attempted, through obfuscation and clearly biased reporting, to mislead the public in regard to Ford. The Star does do a lot of decent reporting and has a lot of justified criticisms of Ford, but the following have all caused them to lose major credibility:

1) Printing a front-page story which purported that Ford assaulted a teenager. Yes, they were perfectly entitled to print allegations, but once it became clear that those allegations were completely false, the Star should have printed a front-page retraction or apology.

2) Printing three-week old poll numbers on the front of the "GTA" section which implied Ford was losing ground. The date of the poll numbers was nowhere in the heading, subheading or lede. This was really a blatant attempt to mislead the public.

3) Political cartoons which well transgress the point of being satire and go into mean-spirited, mindless attacks, such as the Ford follies series: http://www.davidparkins.com/ford.html. They're admittedly funny, but so outside the boundaries of good taste, particularly for a major daily.

4) Heather Mallick columns which just insult Ford based solely on his appearance and completely baseless assumptions. Royson James does good work, but its published alongside drivel from the likes of Mallick and Fiorto.

I truly think its almost undeniable that the Star has been unethical in their pursuit of Ford. I have no problem with criticisms or critiques of his policies nor do I have a problem with revealing scandals Ford is involved in (such as the crack scandal). However, in regard to Ford, the Star has crossed the line into actually fabricating stories, attacking his appearance, attempting to humiliate the man, stalking the man and publishing TMZ-style journalism (KFC video, the Mayor's cottage, etc).

If you guys think the Star is blameless, that's cool. The point of my original post is that whether you guys agree or not, the Star has lost credibility with Torontonians. The polling numbers show that, and even Michael Cooke has acknowledged this (although he obviously comes at it from a different perspective than myself).
 
The point of my original post is that whether you guys agree or not, the Star has lost credibility with Torontonians.
Some Torontonians. If true, then surely the Star would have also lost credibility for their unnecessary and over-the-top attacks on Lastman and Miller.

There was always a factor that didn't think much of the Star. I think they are just using this as an excuse.

The video will surely be out sooner or later. As both the Post and Sun have published that they believe the reporting of the video's existence is reasonably accurate, then anyone reasonable person will have their credibility restored. And the ones that don't are likely still upset that freedom of religion doesn't mean society will accept the anti-gay or pro-slavery biases of the bible.
 
I truly think its almost undeniable that the Star has been unethical in their pursuit of Ford. I have no problem with criticisms or critiques of his policies nor do I have a problem with revealing scandals Ford is involved in (such as the crack scandal). However, in regard to Ford, the Star has crossed the line into actually fabricating stories, attacking his appearance, attempting to humiliate the man, stalking the man and publishing TMZ-style journalism (KFC video, the Mayor's cottage, etc).

I don't see any ethics being breached at all. I think you see it that way cause it's your guy...not because you are concerned for "ethics" (in which case you would definitely not be a self-proclaimed Rob Ford supporter).

The Star is on his case for sure, but it has little to do with a personal bias against Rob, and everything to do with the Atkinson Principles that has always governed the nature of the paper. So there's nothing surprising when the likes of a Rob Ford will find himself constantly in their crosshairs. This is the Star sticking to its long held journalistic ethics.

So how telling (and ironic) is it that you accuse the Star of a lack of ethics, and in the same breath decree your support of Rob Ford, who is probably the least ethical politician in the history of Canada (and aside from his obvious character flaws, completely a failure, so what aspect of Ford or his ideas you "support" eludes me).
 
That poll to which you're referring wasn't a question asked directly about the credibility of the Star, was it? It asked if people believe there exists a crack tape. The Star isn't the only news outlet that has hinted that it believes the tape exists. They're just the ones who have stepped out and done the work. By making it specifically about the Star you're applying Ford Nation spin. If 50% of people don't believe a tape exists, I can't really help them. It is somewhat understandable that some may be skeptical since it has never come to the surface. Since I believe that a recording did exist, I find that it was somehow made to disappear more serious than the initial accusations.

I'm not a daily reader of any of the papers - I read what bubbles to the surface on the Internet - so I don't know the relative tenor of the reporting from any of the sources. But this poll you refer to was conducted by CTV and CP24. These are more responsible news organizations than the Star? If some of the reporting from the Star sometimes seem focused on the trivial, perhaps it is because Rob Ford is in his appetites, actions and words an incredibly trivial man for someone who is Mayor of one of the biggest cities in North America. This story about assaulting a teenager was the story about Ford's time as a football coach in the public school system? Was this proven false or just not verified by further testimony after Ford denials? Truth is, despite bringing large amounts of money, some fundraised and some his own, the amounts probably exaggerated but still substantial, into the football programs of two school systems, Ford has been removed as a volunteer coach by both those systems. That speaks to his character, and there's a story there, even if it does end up getting reduced to the trivial by Ford denials, bully behaviour and a resistance from the other organizations to get drawn into the nonsense.

Anyway, I wish those who come here to support Ford would just speak from their own beliefs and conclusions rather than acting as emissaries from the real-world, wanting to tell us how the people (those at Tim Horton's and Walmart, in Fordspeak) think.
 
Anyway, I wish those who come here to support Ford would just speak from their own beliefs and conclusions rather than acting as emissaries from the real-world, wanting to tell us how the people (those at Tim Horton's and Walmart, in Fordspeak) think.

I disagree. As FCG notes, above, there's a wonderful bit of poetry in a Fordite attacking the Star's (or anyone's) ethics. Also, some of the best satireon this site has been the sock-puppet Fordite-spoofers whose words and views are so close to the real thing that it is challenging to distinguish the two.

Taking a step back, it is apparent that electoral politics have become cheap theatre. Maybe they always were, but the pace is just increasing. To my mind, this is a function of protecting the powers that be from the threat of actual change. That, and an increasingly supine, stupified and illiterate electorate. In any case, while it is depressing to be reminded just how far our society is from being capable of enlightened self-governance, I find it a convenient courtesy that Fordites go to the trouble of trolling us by smearing their digital feces on these pages.
 
given that you are outnumbered on this forum by AT least 500 to 1, please explain why you want to participate on this thread.

That's a dangerous assertion that people with unpopular opinions should remain silent. The last thing I want this forum to become is an even greater echo-chamber than it is now.
 
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That's a dangerous assertion that people with unpopular opinions should remain silent. The last thing I want this forum to become is an even greater echo-chamber than it is now.

personally, i am happy if they remain silent, because anyone who continues to support Ford at this point is demonstrating that they are not worth paying attention to.

the idea that someone would KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY support a Mayor who is a KNOWN user of crack cocaine is just so pathetic and laughable on its face that i am amazed they have the nerve to even own up to it.


just to recap, here are the symptoms of crack cocaine usage:

Crack cocaine is a strong stimulant that energizes the entire central nervous system and places damaging stresses on the heart, lungs and brain. It is also very often associated with a dramatic deterioration of the quality of life.

The person's moods may swing wildly and he or she may manifest a false sense of confidence and power. There may be hallucinations and confusion. He will probably have trouble concentrating.

Definite negative phenomena will show up either coincident with drug use or after it has been used for a while. These include depression, isolation, defensiveness and paranoia.

If the drug is used over a period of time, the user is likely to show premature aging. Some people have developed Parkinson's disease after a long period of crack cocaine use.

Binge use of crack cocaine can result in a psychotic, over-stimulated state accompanied by paranoia and compulsive behavior. At the end of the binge, the person will normally crash, suffering exhaustion, agitation, depression and intense cravings.

Work performance normally suffers greatly because nothing is as interesting or exciting as using the drug. Employees who use crack cocaine normally miss work and deadlines.

When crack cocaine is smoked, muscles tense, the heart beats faster. The person experiences an exhilaration as a result of the release of specific mood hormones.

At the same time that the heart beats faster, the blood vessels constrict, resulting in elevate blood pressure. At any time, this change can result in a heart attack, stroke or cardiac arrest.

The person will have dilated pupils and a dry mouth. He or she may sweat and there will be little appetite. He will probably be restless and talkative. There will be too much energy for the person to sleep. He will be physically active.


ETC. ETC.


and yet there are a few dead enders on this board who don't consider crack use a deal breaker in a public official?? who continue to say things like "i am a Ford supporter"??

i mean c'mon--that 'opinion' is just a total joke.
 
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