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News Roundup for November 5, 2024
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Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?

lesouris said:
I really dislike this whole "Smitherman," "Fiberals," "New Spendocrats" stuff. People from all over the political spectrum are guilty of this, and all it does is prove to people who would otherwise engage in politics that it is nothing but school yard bullying for grown-ups.

If you don't like the man, explain why in a more mature manner and you might find more people agree with you, or at least that more people respect you.
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To single out Fresh Start on this seems a little disingenuous. Have you read the comments about Ford throughout this thread?
 
think generally you could find a deep correlation in people who support Ford and people who generally dislike what Toronto is today. People who oppose Ford probably have a better appreciation for the city in general.

What I find most alarming, though, is the way this underscores a huge disconnect between the downtown core and the suburbs. I'm not sure if there's any way a post-amalgmation mayoral candidate can truly satisfy both groups. The divide feels cavernous.
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You hit the nail on the head right there! I live in east Scarborough and I find that any of my neighbours who plan to vote, absolutely love Ford! When asked, a majority said they rarely go to other parts of the city except for work; most head to the local suburban Kelseys as a 'night out'. That basically encapsulates the almost 905 mentality in Toronto's inner suburbs, they dont feel they are a part of the city, and identify more with the other suburban municipalities.

I'm often asked why I like Toronto, my neighbours claim its "scary' downtown........this is the reason I'm moving to the Junction in September lol.
 
Parkdalian said:
As for getting rid of Sandra Bussin: it might terrify you to know that she is an elected representative. In other words, the people in her constitutency voted for her. Whether you dislike her or not is not really your concern unless she committed a crime. Decreasing the size of council should not be an excuse to get rid of people that rub you the wrong way. If the folks in the Beaches think she screwed up, they'll vote someone else in (likely someone you will dislike as well!).
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Though it might be more plausible than it appears for Bussin to lose to someone right-of-centre--after all, this used to be Jakobek country. (Okay, not a Jakobek. But maybe a Karen Stintz of the East...)
 
gristle said:
Yes, you truly are a man of the people.
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You do my audience a disservice by cutting off my quotes part way. Stupid is allowing what happened in 2003 and 2006 to repeat itself, then proceed to complain for years how the system is crumbling apart.
 
Fresh Start said:
That's my worst nightmare personified. Smitherman and Rossi? Want more of the same? Elect another Liberal and you shall get your wish. Toronto will continue its downward spiral from the “City That Works” back to the “Muddy York” of two centuries ago unless something totally different is done.
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I didn't know there were political parties in City elections. I guess that makes Ford a Conservative like Eves and Harris? Is that what's going to make Toronto the "City That Works" instead of repeating the mistakes of a decade ago?


Fresh Start said:
Smitherman just sounds more like an idiot day after day. He's making it too easy for the people of Toronto. And to all of Smitherman supporters... REALLYYYYYYYY? Rob Ford understands how to control costs because it is part of his business practice. His private company employs 250 people.
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Rob Ford is CFO of his family's company. Is he going to give that up if he's elected? He hasn't in all the years he's been a on City Council, and it shows in his attendance and awareness of the issues facing Toronto.

Fresh Start said:
George Smitherman, a lawyer by trade, has no idea how to control costs -- he is adversarial on every topic. When George was told about conditions in nursing homes, he offered to wear a diaper --- some solution. With no local consultation, he decided to build a gas-powered generating station in the Greenbelt on the edge of the Holland Marsh, Ontario's primary heritage farmland. George's party with E-Health 'consultants' (political cronyism) has cost us at least $1-billion. His bypassing of any environmental studies to push windmills in Lake Ontario by the Scarborough Bluffs; the serious questions about his financial management skills--i.e. ehealth, etc, real questons about his going to a mayor's conference in China on the Chinese government's dime (what sort of influence peddling is this?); his close involvement with Mcguinty that still goes on... George is a talking head with no idea how cost/benefits analysis is performed. George is a menace.
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Sounds like someone has a lot of hate for the Ontario Liberal Party. Yes, Smitherman was the Minster for Health during half the period of the eHealth spending and for 18-months Minster for Energy and Infrastructure. Is he personally responsible for every poor decision and inaction of the Ontario Liberal Party over the last decade?

Fresh Start said:
One more thing, Rossi started off immediately with the WRONG attitude. Why 'sell' anything to reduce the deficit? Why not cut waste and limit increases to public sector payroll costs? That's what an intelligent person would do. Anything that has to do with the Liberal Party of Canada these days is like jumping from the devil we know to the devil we don't. And splitering the right-wing vote will only allow Smitherman to slither his way through to victory.
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How about you vote for the person you think would individually be the best mayor? If you think Rob Ford's understanding of health (AIDS comes from gay men and needles), poverty (no shelters in his ward thank-you very much), transportation (end the war on cars), and civic behaviour (arrested for assult, ejected from a Leafs game, breaching confidenciality) is superior to the other candidates, then present those aspects of him. Tarring candidates with broad brush generalities doesn't create the most informed public.

Fresh Start said:
What Toronto REALLY needs is a mayor who understands how to run a CITY efficiently, not someone who wastes time and money declaring nuclear-free zones and closing law-abiding gun clubs (big difference that made). Someone who can fix the streets and sewers, clean up the TTC, collect the garbage and balance the books, all without screeching about being "world-class". Oh and it's not just mayor that has to be replaced, the councillors have to go as well. It's time to break up their monopoly over this city. Sandra Bussin, councillor for Toronto Beaches, is a great example of what needs to go and fast!
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I agree the first line completely. Toronto needs a mayor that understands the City and how it runs. Without that understanding, you make blind actions without knowing what the tangential side effects will be.

Fresh Start said:
So when y'all have the maturity to talk about the issues, rather than insinuate that Rob Ford is a mafioso or focus so narrowly on inconsequential sensstionalist spin concocted up in a mediahouse darkroom, I'll be waiting.
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Rob Ford is great at presenting a fiscally conservative stance. I repudiate his understanding of: poor people, gay people, and immigrated people. I don't know how much each of those groups overlaps, but I would say they represent the majority of the City. Without knowing and understanding what you want to cut, you will end getting rid of something you need and costing more in the long run.
 
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Fresh Start said:
George Smitherman, a lawyer by trade, has no idea how to control costs
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While it might be nitpicky to point out this one error in a sea of them, Smitherman is not a lawyer. He has no post-secondary education. Not that this should really matter. From everything I've heard no one doubts that he's brilliant, and he has more than enough useful experience.
 
Mapleson said:
Sounds like someone has a lot of hate for the Ontario Liberal Party. Yes, Smitherman was the Minster for Health during half the period of the eHealth spending and for 18-months Minster for Energy and Infrastructure. Is he personally responsible for every poor decision and inaction of the Ontario Liberal Party over the last decade?
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At this stage of the game is a 'hate-on' for the Liberals really that outlandish, or a distrust at the very least? Remember what happened to the federal Liberals when they were left unchecked in power for too long? As cautionary tales are EHealth and OLG not compelling enough for you at the provincial level? No parties are sqeaky clean, I grant you, but Smitherman just reaks by association... and in this context I hardly think this is some sort of unfair 'hate' for or targeting of Smitherman's Liberal Party background. Seems like fair dues to me!


Mapleson said:
How about you vote for the person you think would individually be the best mayor? If you think Rob Ford's understanding of health (AIDS comes from gay men and needles), poverty (no shelters in his ward thank-you very much), transportation (end the war on cars), and civic behaviour (arrested for assult, ejected from a Leafs game, breaching confidenciality) is superior to the other candidates, then present those aspects of him. Tarring candidates with broad brush generalities doesn't create the most informed public.
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Ford definitely lacks polish where Smitherman is literally slick with it. Not sure who I would trust more. As for tarring candidates with 'broad brush generalities' you seem to be doing it too though, no?


Mapleson said:
Rob Ford is great at presenting a fiscally conservative stance. I repudiate his understanding of: poor people, gay people, and immigrated people. I don't know how much each of those groups overlaps, but I would say they represent the majority of the City. Without knowing and understanding what you want to cut, you will end getting rid of something you need and costing more in the long run.
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... yet gay and immigrant people will vote for Ford, and perhaps many it would seem. Why do you feel that other candidates have a 'better' understanding of people? Could one just as equally assume that Smitherman, as a minority urbanite in a same-sex marriage - would be just as out of touch with straight suburban Torontonians? Maybe? Maybe not? Again, no politicians are perfect or squeaky clean, no matter how slick their PR image.
 
adma said:
Though it might be more plausible than it appears for Bussin to lose to someone right-of-centre--after all, this used to be Jakobek country. (Okay, not a Jakobek. But maybe a Karen Stintz of the East...)
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True. But as Rob Ford can't even get along with people like Case Ootes, I'm not sure anyone replacing Bussin would be to a Ford supporter's liking. Unless of course, it was Rob Ford.
 
Tewder said:
At this stage of the game is a 'hate-on' for the Liberals really that outlandish, or a distrust at the very least? Remember what happened to the federal Liberals when they were left unchecked in power for too long? As cautionary tales are EHealth and OLG not compelling enough for you at the provincial level? No parties are sqeaky clean, I grant you, but Smitherman just reaks by association... and in this context I hardly think this is some sort of unfair 'hate' for or targeting of Smitherman's Liberal Party background. Seems like fair dues to me!
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I believe it's fair to hate the Ontario Liberals for Ontario elections. If John Tory was running would he be accountable for the PC's actions?

I hold Smitherman responsible for actions he had direct control over. He is in directly responsible for part of the eHealth spending (any contracts starting in 2003 to 2008), but he is not responsible for the failure of the Ontario legistature to direct infrastructure funding into electronic filing systems.

In November, 2011, I'll vote on the eHealth and OLG issues. In October, 2010, I'll vote on Toronto issues.

Tewder said:
Ford definitely lacks polish where Smitherman is literally slick with it. Not sure who I would trust more. As for tarring candidates with 'broad brush generalities' you seem to be doing it too though, no?
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I probably do generalize, but I try to keep it connected directly to an individuals actions. It's not a generality that he was thrown out of the ACC because he was drunk and swearing at kids. It's not a generality that he was charged with assult and then his wife withdrew the charges (complete supposition, but it is law that you cannot be on City Council if you have any jail time). I've never been thrown out of a sporting event, so I don't know what level of abuse is tolerated.

I can agree with Ford's politics, but I can't agree with him on everything else. Then when his politics don't seem to accomplish much (what was the last item of City business that Rob Ford made a difference in?) and most platform positions will change to meet the realities of the job, I cannot support him, and he mainly serves to damage the creditability of being a fiscal conservative candidate.

Tewder said:
... yet gay and immigrant people will vote for Ford, and perhaps many it would seem. Why do you feel that other candidates have a 'better' understanding of people? Could one just as equally assume that Smitherman, as a minority urbanite in a same-sex marriage - would be just as out of touch with straight suburban Torontonians? Maybe? Maybe not? Again, no politicians are perfect or squeaky clean, no matter how slick their PR image.
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"[AIDS] is very preventable, if you are not doing needles and you are not gay, you wouldn't get AIDS probably, that's bottom line. How are women getting it? Maybe they are sleeping with bisexual men." - Rob Ford, June 2006

If every gay person in Toronto hasn't heard that quote by now, they'll hear it by October 25. I'm sure some can overlook it, but I for one wouldn't want Toronto's disease prevention techniques to reflect that mindset.

If Rob Ford is elected Mayor, how will he marshall the votes to have any affect on Toronto? What is his signature accomplishment from 10 years on City Council? I'm not worried about PR images, I'm worried about how real citizens are viewed and treated.
 
SimonP said:
While it might be nitpicky to point out this one error in a sea of them, Smitherman is not a lawyer. He has no post-secondary education. Not that this should really matter. From everything I've heard no one doubts that he's brilliant, and he has more than enough useful experience.
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You're right about that. Smitherfraud didn't even complete grade 11. The centre-left's prodigal son is nothing but a high school dropout, nowhere near qualified to hold half the positions he's ever been put in. And before you tell me Ford didn't complete his Poli Sci degree, remember that he fell short only one credit for the honourable reasoning of taking care of his drug-addled sister.
 
These quotes (about AIDS and so on) have been overblown. The mayor will have no power to impact this kind of social issue anyway, so I don't know what we're afraid of. He's a straight shooter. Straight shooters say dumb things sometimes. Slimy guys, on the other hand, say the right things but may not believe them. I'm sure if every one of our own arguments were mic'd, we'd all have some things to be embarrassed about.

I think this election needs to focus on who has good ideas, and who can get them done. Let's not get pulled into sound bite politics.
 
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