Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?

[nfitz]

If you took my views of actually understanding the validity of having both genders being represented in the rearing of children as attacks on same sex couples and single familes, then that's your your problem.

I come from a single family background. My mother tried raising both my brother and myself without my father but she tried to have male role models around and later told us both that we needed men in our lives particularily a father figure. She flat out told us that as a woman, she didn't know how to shape boys into men. She understood the importance of the other gender with raising children.

And she was right. There are no clear cut studies that have studied the long term consequences of same sex rearing of children because it's such a new construct in our society.

Your mother's personal failings have nothing to do with whether same sex parents are better or not. Given the article in the Globe on Monday that reported on a study that kids raised by lesbian parents have fewer behavioural problems and rate higher in social and academic competence than their peers, it's pretty clear that the issue has nothing to do with sexual preference.

Your mother's issue wasn't that she was a female; it was that she was a single parent.

To take this and make such despicable and horrible bigoted comments is unwarranted.

 

[GraphicMatt]

While everyone else is attacking you from another front (and making good sense while doing it), I'd like to challenge your claim that "dysfunctional behaviour" is running rampant these days. By what metric? Crime? Graduation Rates? Cultural achievements? What?

Says a lot that Rob Ford has got us arguing about gay marriage again. What direction would he take this city?

 

[Rowe]

I come from a single family background. My mother tried raising both my brother and myself without my father but she tried to have male role models around and later told us both that we needed men in our lives particularily a father figure. She flat out told us that as a woman, she didn't know how to shape boys into men. She understood the importance of the other gender with raising children.

And she was right. There are no clear cut studies that have studied the long term consequences of same sex rearing of children because it's such a new construct in our society. But we sure as hell have seen the results of single family units primarily that of single mothers and the fallout when fathers aren't involved.

But once again, when anyone including myself raises the question of the restricting or absence of the other gender in the equation of children such as we find in the examples of same sex marriages or single family units and the potential consequences, we're automatically labelled as being intolerant or somehow nuts.

Do you have any friends who have been raised by same-sex parents? Do you know people who are married to the same sex?

This is the same bs that people talk about when it comes to abotion. Clearly a fetus is a 'human being' but not the child in the foster home. Heaven forbid that a child would be better off with NO family than a family of the same-sex. If conservatives are about family, lets talk about the millions of children in North America who have no family because of heterosexuals who give up these children.

I'm also sorry you had a difficult time growing up. I had an amazing childhood growing up with my non-religous black parent and white parent.

But I have to say one thing that I haven't seen on this topic that I want to say to all people who do not support same-sex marriage...DON'T MARRY SOMEONE OF THE SAME SEX.

 

[tkip]

Do you have any friends who have been raised by same-sex parents? Do you know people who are married to the same sex?

This is the same bs that people talk about when it comes to abotion. Clearly a fetus is a 'human being' but not the child in the foster home. Heaven forbid that a child would be better off with NO family than a family of the same-sex. If conservatives are about family, lets talk about the millions of children in North America who have no family because of heterosexuals who give up these children.

I'm also sorry you had a difficult time growing up. I had an amazing childhood growing up with my non-religous black parent and white parent.

But I have to say one thing that I haven't seen on this topic that I want to say to all people who do not support same-sex marriage...DON'T MARRY SOMEONE OF THE SAME SEX.

Before we go any further. Don't bring abortion into this conversation because it's not about abortion. It's about same sex marriage and people expressing their views on it.

And no, not one person I know or ever known has been raised by same sex parents. All I'm saying and meant from the beginning is the importance of both fathers and mothers being vital to children and how this is changing and a huge amount of people including myself are questioning this. That's it. Just questioning.

We're not after gays or single mothers or trying to abolish human rights or anything else but we're being ridiculed, mocked, called names, threatened and marginalized all because we've raised some legit questions.

 

[doug]

Your post doesn't make sense.

Only to you, more willfull ignorance I guess. His post makes a lot of sense.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Even if there were documented studies that said a child will do better in school or be better socially adjusted if raised by a mother and father versus a same sex couple, would that really be enough of a reason to make same sex adoption illegal?

 

[PinkLucy]

There are a lot of people who grew up with a male parent and a female parent and who are not well adjusted at all. There will always be dysfunctional families, regardless of the makeup of said families.

 

[SlickFranky]

All I'm saying and meant from the beginning is the importance of both fathers and mothers being vital to children and how this is changing and a huge amount of people including myself are questioning this. That's it. Just questioning.

Others have asked similar questions...and done studies....hundreds of studies. Your questions have already been answered: two parents are better than one, regardless of gender.

Anyway, by the logic of your 'line of questioning', single parenthood should be illegal. And none of this has anything to do with same-sex marriage.

 

[Tewder]

So an opposite-sex couple that decides not to have children, or who are incapable, should also be denied the right to marry?

 

[adma]

I come from a single family background. My mother tried raising both my brother and myself without my father but she tried to have male role models around and later told us both that we needed men in our lives particularily a father figure. She flat out told us that as a woman, she didn't know how to shape boys into men. She understood the importance of the other gender with raising children.

And she was right. There are no clear cut studies that have studied the long term consequences of same sex rearing of children because it's such a new construct in our society. But we sure as hell have seen the results of single family units primarily that of single mothers and the fallout when fathers aren't involved.

Ah, but you're overlooking other factors--class, culture, etc. IOW there's more to defective child-rearing than the simple absence of a clear "father figure"--indeed, a lot hinges upon the circumstances of *how* said father figure came to be absent in the first place; which could tilt negatively in the father's direction, or the mother's direction, or both (which can lead to children being raised by grandparents, or foster parents, etc).

And, I'd argue, better no father (or mother) figure at all than one that's ignorant/abusive/irresponsible. Or just generally, better for a kid raised within an enlightened-enough same-sex relationship than for one who's a product of this

or this

 

[Gavin]

It amazes me that I can go to Vegas, get drunk, fall in "love" with a stripper, marry her, then divorce her when I sober up the next day...but to some of you, two people of the same sex who are in loving and committed relationships shouldn't be allowed to marry each other.

 

[Gavin]

Because, after all, the stripper is (presumably) a woman and that's all that matters.

 

[Gavin]

Food for thought:

 

[nfitz]

Food for thought:

LOL - that's hilarious!

 

[Fresh Start]

Ah, but you're overlooking other factors--class, culture, etc. IOW there's more to defective child-rearing than the simple absence of a clear "father figure"--indeed, a lot hinges upon the circumstances of *how* said father figure came to be absent in the first place; which could tilt negatively in the father's direction, or the mother's direction, or both (which can lead to children being raised by grandparents, or foster parents, etc).

And, I'd argue, better no father (or mother) figure at all than one that's ignorant/abusive/irresponsible. Or just generally, better for a kid raised within an enlightened-enough same-sex relationship than for one who's a product of this

or this

+1

The structure isn't working. When people like Bristol Palin has a baby out of wedlock and then breaks her engagement with Todd after realizing he's more interested in being famous than in being a dad, you can see that heterosexuals don't need gays to destroy the institution of marriage, they're doing a great job themselves. I also heard on The O'Reilly Factor that 34% of babies being born in America belong to single mothers. In fact, some women even choose to be single-parents, in spite of how much more expensive is to raise a child when you don't have a partner paying for half your bills.

Now I admit that I'm not an enthusiastic supporter of same-sex marriage, my struggles with finding a man that will date me more than once are well known. However, I do not see heterosexual marriage as this magical government structure that solves all problems and protects the kids. My own parents who have been married for 40 years aren't a great couple because of the government, and their parenting style did not come from some liberal big government agenda either.

Besides, how can marriage be such a sacred institution when you can go to Las Vegas and get a drive-through wedding, an Elvis wedding, a King Arthur's wedding (at the fabulous Excalibur Resort & Casino), and all kinds of weddings from just $100 to thousands of dollars. If marriage is so sacred and serious, why do some people elope? Why did Britney Spears married her gay best friend for 24 hours?

Procreation is irrelevant, the fact that people who are too old to procreate get married should say something. And what about prisoners? Did you know you can marry any serial killer or rapist in prison? Sure, just bring a priest and if you can't kiss his lips, they'll let you kiss the glass! Sanctity of marriage? What a joke.