Rob Ford wants subways, not streetcars

[sodapop]

i agree ^^^

 

[nfitz]

Why don't you go out there with a stopwatch and track the cycles at every intersection for a few months?

You might not be aware of this, buy light cycles seldom vary over the course of a month.

 

[W. K. Lis]

What makes you think an LRT car won't be just as crowded? All that crowding is calculated. The TTC always runs the minimum amount of service to keep the cars fully packed. Do you really think the TTC is going to run half-empty LRT cars every 5 minutes on Finch, all day long?

Yes. A half empty LRV (light rail vehicle) car would be the equivalent of 2 buses, but driven by 1 driver. A full LRV would be equivalent of 4 buses, but driven by 1 driver. Trains of 2 cars (driven by 1 driver) would be equivalent of 8 buses, and since the stop platforms are to be constructed for 3 LRV car trains... and with ALL the doors to be used for boarding and egressing the 100% low-floor light rail vehicles.

So even a ¼ full LRV would carry a bus load of passengers, along with their bicycles, strollers, and packages. They'll just add on more cars to form trains when it gets crowded.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Why don't you go out there with a stopwatch and track the cycles at every intersection for a few months? It's absolutely essential that we know if they're over one minute or less than two minutes.

Be careful what you wish for. If there's anything I've learned from discussion forums, it's that there are people who have an almost autistic desire to go out and collect non-reported data to prove a point. I'm not naming names, but there was once a forumer who drove up and down every arterial in the city logging the floor-count of every high rise discernibly over 12 storeys just to come back and prove to Chicagoans that Toronto has more high-rises.

I mean, holy crap, you wouldn't get me to do that kind of research if it was for my PhD dissertation and you paid me. And at least with a PhD, you get funding, publish a paper about it and have the chance to travel to a far-away conference to present your findings. On fora like these, it's just a bragging point attached to your username that will probably get deleted in five years when the mods decide to move the forum to a new site.

 

[leopetr]

Ah, we've been hearing about the death of the suburbs for ages now. Well, when's it gonna happen?

It's happenning now. Markham, Vaughan, and Mississauga are all putting in as many condos and townhouses as they can because, without developer fees, detached house developments don't pay enough in taxes to support the services they expect.

I'm specifically thinking of the Markham Centre development between Warden and Kennedy as well as the bit between Bayview and Leslie. There are similar plans for Richmond Hill Centre, Langstaff, etc. Highway 7 will be a much denser corridor in 10 years.

Edit: I suppose that's more the replacement of suburban with urban. For actual death, look at Rexdale, Malton, and other low density suburbs past their glory.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

It's happenning now. Markham, Vaughan, and Mississauga are all putting in as many condos and townhouses as they can because, without developer fees, detached house developments don't pay enough in taxes to support the services they expect.

I'm specifically thinking of the Markham Centre development between Warden and Kennedy as well as the bit between Bayview and Leslie. There are similar plans for Richmond Hill Centre, Langstaff, etc. Highway 7 will be a much denser corridor in 10 years.

Edit: I suppose that's more the replacement of suburban with urban. For actual death, look at Rexdale, Malton, and other low density suburbs past their glory.

The 905 is building apartment towers on greenfields along megarterial roads and highways...so what? The glory days of suburban Metro Toronto were all about...drum roll...building apartment towers on greenfields along megarterial roads and highways. Notwithstanding a few outliers like Aurora or Ajax, we've more Don Mills suburbia than Levittown or Gwinnett or Cape Coral suburbia.

A place like Rexdale is past its petite mort, perhaps, but its actual death will be at an unknown future time. A subdivision in Gwinnett or northern Indianapolis might be better able to feed itself from backyard gardens than the homes on shoebox sized lots in Markham, but if our food/industrial complex breaks down to that degree, much more than suburbia will die. It's actually fairly hard to imagine scenarios in which the 905 is at a disadvantage compared to most other cities, or even compared to the 416.

Be careful what you wish for. If there's anything I've learned from discussion forums, it's that there are people who have an almost autistic desire to go out and collect non-reported data to prove a point. I'm not naming names, but there was once a forumer who drove up and down every arterial in the city logging the floor-count of every high rise discernibly over 12 storeys just to come back and prove to Chicagoans that Toronto has more high-rises.

I mean, holy crap, you wouldn't get me to do that kind of research if it was for my PhD dissertation and you paid me. And at least with a PhD, you get funding, publish a paper about it and have the chance to travel to a far-away conference to present your findings. On fora like these, it's just a bragging point attached to your username that will probably get deleted in five years when the mods decide to move the forum to a new site.

Or in five weeks when a random database error (knock on wood) crashes everything.

I do wish for it. We desperately need to know if the light cycles are more than one minute or less than two minutes...we really need someone to sit out there and make sure. The person could also keep track of lawns along Finch and see if the average lawn has grass that's shorter than one foot or higher than one inch. This is urgent stuff!

You might not be aware of this, buy light cycles seldom vary over the course of a month.

So go out there and track them for a few years.

 

[Fresh Start]

The L in LRT stands for Lenin, as in Vladmir Lenin because it is a leftist ideology. The H in HRT stands for Hitler, and we know Hitler was right wing because he was always on about "Man, look at the size of the nose on that Jew! Winston Churchill sure is fat, I bet he eats hamburgers all the time!". Whereas people who use the Lenin Rapid Transit are always accepting of fat people, because that's all part of the LRT philosophy.

So either you are a subway fan who likes to make jokes about people's weight, or you are an LRT commie who should be ultra sensitive. There is no in-between.

And you dare to call my reasoning stupid? Okay, let 'er rip.

Is it any wonder that Left-wing thought is never able to sell itself to the average person? This is why Left-wing talk radio and TV always is a losing proposition. It is idiotic in its reasoning. Left-wing candidates always have to lie about whom they are and what they believe in order to win. The only way for Left-wingers to win is to lie about themselves, their opponents AND most importantly, promise voters free stuff that will be paid for by other people. If liberals agree, with each other, on any issue, then, by their reasoning... they are right and everyone else is wrong. They can't defend their reasoning, which is why everything is about being racist because that's the only way they know how to get out of a corner they back themselves into with their flawed and really stupid reasoning, as the quote above exemplifies.

David Miller is not a Nazi, nor is he a Commie. He and his accomplices form a new, as yet unnamed, socialistic-statist entity. Given space to grow, this new group will prove to be a worse scourge than either of the two others.

Goodnight hekkal,

It was fun @$%#ing with you. Almost as much fun as watching both conversatives and liberals alike try to deny their collective racist tendencies. Remember this little exchange next time you want to insert your posts into your mouth.

Cheers,

Mr. Start

 

[Red Mosquito]

And you dare to call my reasoning stupid? Okay, let 'er rip.

Is it any wonder that Left-wing thought is never able to sell itself to the average person? This is why Left-wing talk radio and TV always is a losing proposition. It is idiotic in its reasoning. Left-wing candidates always have to lie about whom they are and what they believe in order to win. The only way for Left-wingers to win is to lie about themselves, their opponents AND most importantly, promise voters free stuff that will be paid for by other people. If liberals agree, with each other, on any issue, then, by their reasoning... they are right and everyone else is wrong. They can't defend their reasoning, which is why everything is about being racist because that's the only way they know how to get out of a corner they back themselves into with their flawed and really stupid reasoning, as the quote above exemplifies.

David Miller is not a Nazi, nor is he a Commie. He and his accomplices form a new, as yet unnamed, socialistic-statist entity. Given space to grow, this new group will prove to be a worse scourge than either of the two others.

Goodnight hekkal,

It was fun @$%#ing with you. Almost as much fun as watching both conversatives and liberals alike try to deny their collective racist tendencies. Remember this little exchange next time you want to insert your posts into your mouth.

Cheers,

Mr. Start

Project much?

 

[GraphicMatt]

Okay, now, let's keep poking him. His head is sure to explode any minute now.

 

[gweed123]

I fail to see how subway vs LRT is a left vs right issue. I'm left wing, yet I support subways. Actually I should specify, I'm in favour of the right transit solution for the right corridor.

The debate over transit vs car may be a left vs right issue, but the debate of what type of transit to use is not.

 

[Fresh Start]

Thank you for getting it, gweed. I am not a “right wing” supporter. I support those who want to do what's right. People who truly love Toronto and want it to be a long-term success and to stop witnessing the migration of our valued businesspeople and intelligencia out to the 905 area, will give them real incentive to stick around and allow for the voice of silent majority to be heard.

 

[unimaginative2]

Thank you for getting it, gweed. I am not a “right wing” supporter. I support those who want to do what's right. People who truly love Toronto and want it to be a long-term success and to stop witnessing the migration of our valued businesspeople and intelligencia out to the 905 area, will give them real incentive to stick around and allow for the voice of silent majority to be heard.

Here's news for ya: if you support the Conservatives, you're a "right wing supporter."

 

[kEiThZ]

I fail to see how subway vs LRT is a left vs right issue.

+1

I am a swing voter who switches regularly. And I don't see subway vs. LRT as a left v. right issue.

But I do see a leftist mayor pursuing transit expansion under leftist ideological principles. Would Transit City have been what it is, if the planners hadn't been worried about socio-economically underperforming neighbourhoods? What would happen if all the planners cared about was ridership?

 

[Fresh Start]

Here's news for ya: if you support the Conservatives, you're a "right wing supporter."

The Conservative Party in Canada is somewhat liberal ideologically and mostly "conservative" in economic tendency. Both in the provinces and at Ottawa, both Tory and Liberal governments have been obliged to appeal to voters based on health care schemes, workers' compensation, child care and a host of other issues seen as liberal or left-wing in the United States by comparison. I don't exist in a world of bifurcations or false dichotomies; I pledge my allegiance to whichever candidate's capable of honestly answering me this one simple question: "What have you done for me lately?"

 

[gweed123]

+1

I am a swing voter who switches regularly. And I don't see subway vs. LRT as a left v. right issue.

But I do see a leftist mayor pursuing transit expansion under leftist ideological principles. Would Transit City have been what it is, if the planners hadn't been worried about socio-economically underperforming neighbourhoods? What would happen if all the planners cared about was ridership?

I do agree that the 'social transit planning' that the city has undertaken with TC, while it is a noble idea, is ultimately foolish. The optimal result in terms of ridership is when land use planning and transit planning are overlayed. Adding in social planning skews the results, and places a higher emphasis on some areas than should be. What I mean by that is, if an area is of greater social need, that area may get more in the way of transit infrastructure than what the ridership numbers, density, etc, can justify.

A perfect example of this is the Jane LRT. The main purpose of the Jane LRT is to serve Rexdale, and specifically Jane and Finch, one of the highest priority areas of social need. However, from a ridership perspective, running an LRT on Jane makes little sense. Social planning has skewed the results of what just transit and land use planning would have come up with, and has diverted funds away from other areas (the DRL for example), which would be of greater advantage to the entire city, and even the people who live in Rexdale.