Steve X
Senior Member
To add to this list
Martin Grove and Eglinton
Black Creek and Lawrence
basically anywhere with high traffic left turning lanes is a good location for them.
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Roadside Begging
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
- Start date
Martin Grove and Eglinton
Black Creek and Lawrence
basically anywhere with high traffic left turning lanes is a good location for them.
crs1026
Senior Member
^The interesting thing is - while we increasingly hear about every other kind of pedestrian-car fatality, we virtually never hear of a panhandler hit or killed by a car. Statistically, it isn't much of a problem, especially compared to seniors, people crossing where there isn't a crosswalk, within reasonable distance, distracted walking, etc. So really, is this a problem?
The only down side I see to panhandling is if the individual gets aggressive or approaches the vehicle(s) in a way that alarms vehicle occupants. So long as they stay on or close to the sidewalk to make their rounds, there's no reason for alarm. I do agree that those who walk between lanes of cars, as opposed to just walking along the curb, should attract enforcement.
- Paul
The only down side I see to panhandling is if the individual gets aggressive or approaches the vehicle(s) in a way that alarms vehicle occupants. So long as they stay on or close to the sidewalk to make their rounds, there's no reason for alarm. I do agree that those who walk between lanes of cars, as opposed to just walking along the curb, should attract enforcement.
- Paul
OneCity
Senior Member
Pretty much most major intersections across the GTA now have beggars. I had friends in Vaughan discussing this change not to long ago. They mentioned a sizable increase above Steeles which they believe is due to an influx in refugees
Whereas throughout Toronto from Etobicoke thru Scarborough most beggars I encounter seem to be from a shelter and look a bit tipsy doing their timmys cup shuffle between cars or holding signs at intersections. It fascinates me it seem so or organized that we see minimal fighting over space and amazes more that many can control themselves to just do the tipsy shuffle and don't seem to cause too many problems while clearly in an altered state of the body and mind.
Lakeshore and Leslie has is also prime grade A real estate for beggars due to the volume and dwell time in rush hour.
Whereas throughout Toronto from Etobicoke thru Scarborough most beggars I encounter seem to be from a shelter and look a bit tipsy doing their timmys cup shuffle between cars or holding signs at intersections. It fascinates me it seem so or organized that we see minimal fighting over space and amazes more that many can control themselves to just do the tipsy shuffle and don't seem to cause too many problems while clearly in an altered state of the body and mind.
Lakeshore and Leslie has is also prime grade A real estate for beggars due to the volume and dwell time in rush hour.
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jsjaker
New Member
It's also happening more in subway stations. I use Queen's Park station for work and going home there was always a woman with the traditional "I have children and need money" sign at the bottom of the escalator on the subway platform level. Interesting that she has the money to get into the subway station. One night as I was coming down the escalator, there was a "shift change". Another woman came over, took the sign and the first woman went up the escalator to presumably leave the station. Organized? Looks like it.
crs1026
Senior Member
I see more of this also. Not just passive sitting with a sign, but approaching people on the trains. I have even seen someone go through the car handing out cards saying something like “I am deaf - can you spare some change?” and then backtracking down the car, collecting the cards and asking for money. (That kind of approach is quite common in other places in the world).I feel there should be zero tolerance of on-train and on-platform panhandling because there is a physical intimidation factor, especially when fewer people are around.
On the bright side, panhandling in this city is far less intrusive than many places. Last time I was in NYC a woman boarded my subway car and screeched in a loud and painful voice “Allright....you’re all gonna give me money because I ain’t gonna stop with my noise until you do”. She got what she was asking for,pretty much.
- Paul
Johnny Au
Senior Member
There's a frequent panhandler at Lawrence and Allen.
sixrings
Senior Member
Rough spot to work. You have to dodge cars from the Allen and bullets from Lawrence Heights.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Yep, I’m there everyday, when I’m not at Eglinton and Allen, seeing the same.
Given TPS inaction (HTA prohibites pedestrians from entering the road space) and driver’s propensity to support the beggars, our only hope to slow and eventually end roadside begging is a brutally harsh winter and an eventual move to cashless economy. On the climate, it’s often been my one lament every spring that the coming summer in downtown east brings out the crazies, whilst winter clears the streets.
I suppose the TPS can justify their inaction and the beggars their action by claiming the letter of law hasn’t been broken, since the beggars aren’t selling anything.
Highway Traffic Act
Section 177(2): No person, while on the roadway, shall stop, attempt to stop or approach a motor vehicle for the purpose of offering, selling or providing any commodity or service to the driver or any other person in the motor vehicle.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Maybe it should be illegal for the driver to support the beggar.
Although the argument can easily be made that they felt threatened and by not giving the money they, or their vehicle, would be harmed.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I don’t think those laws ever work. Education that giving to roadside beggars is not good for anyone may help. But people ignore the “don’t feed the duck” signs and don’t put away their trash lest bears come, even though both do harm to the ducks and the bears.
Mercenary
Active Member
A lot of beggars are Roma Gypsies who pretend to be Syrian Refugees. There is this annoying lady who walks around Union Station and Go Bus Terminal accosting anyone who looks Muslim or Middle Eastern asking for money. Always call that person Brother.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Which is why Canada demanded visas from citizens of the pre-EU Czech Republic. I remember driving from Germany to Croatia through Czech and reminding myself to show my British passport.
Panhandlers calling themselves refugees appear on GTA streets
Passersby who saw the women asking for help wanted to know: what brought them to our streets, and have some refugees slipped through the city's social safety net?
toronto.citynews.ca
Collecting change for a future in Canada: panhandlers claiming they’re refugees
They claim to be fleeing a life of persecution and begging for a future in Canada. CityNews is investigating a rising trend of women panhandling in the GTA while claiming to be refugees from Eastern Europe. Many of the women we spoke to identified as Romanian – specifically of Romani or Roma...
toronto.citynews.ca
Anyone who's ever traveled to eastern Europe knows the scourge of Roma beggars. I'd like to think when folks move to Canada that they leave that life behind.
Sometimes I wish I could just go back to the Toronto and Canada I knew in the 1970s to early 1990s. Roadside beggars weren't a thing, squeegee folks weren't a thing. The country was okay then, why did we feel the need to change it?
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jje1000
Senior Member
This bugs me in the same way that people dressing up as military personnel do. This has to have a stolen-valour equivalent label to it, but I just can't remember.
The main problem with dealing with panhandling is that the culture today no longer permits those laws to be enforced, lest you end up with a bevy of 'homeless advocates' breathlessly exclaiming to the Star about the systematic oppression found everywhere in Toronto.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
crs1026
Senior Member
^At the risk of getting a bit into things righty-lefty..... Fort Lauderdale and Scottsdale are both affluent American cities where the richer residents probably mostly want the poor to disappear. Those signs strike me as more of a message favouring driving the poor out of town than as a workable mitigation to an acknowledged problem.
It’s one thing to admit that panhandling is a major nuisance, and another to try to sidestep any accommodation of the less fortunate.
If Toronto were to post similar signs, I predict there would be huge backlash. That’s not our way. We acknowledge poverty and its problems, maybe we can’t solve them all, but we try to find ways to help.
The accusation that Toronto’s panhandling problem is the work of Roma is off base, IMHO. There may be some of that (and I have seen enough in Europe to know that we don’t want it to take root here), but we have more people who are homeless, addicted, or unwell who will not have much else available to find an income.
I support enforcing rules and laws that keep a lid on panhandling, but I don’t think it can be legislated or enforced out of existence.
(And yes, I have been to Portland, where a stubborn and adamant policy of laissez-faire towards the homeless has pretty much ruined a lovely urban space. I’m strongly supportive of a sticking strongly to the centre here).
- Paul
It’s one thing to admit that panhandling is a major nuisance, and another to try to sidestep any accommodation of the less fortunate.
If Toronto were to post similar signs, I predict there would be huge backlash. That’s not our way. We acknowledge poverty and its problems, maybe we can’t solve them all, but we try to find ways to help.
The accusation that Toronto’s panhandling problem is the work of Roma is off base, IMHO. There may be some of that (and I have seen enough in Europe to know that we don’t want it to take root here), but we have more people who are homeless, addicted, or unwell who will not have much else available to find an income.
I support enforcing rules and laws that keep a lid on panhandling, but I don’t think it can be legislated or enforced out of existence.
(And yes, I have been to Portland, where a stubborn and adamant policy of laissez-faire towards the homeless has pretty much ruined a lovely urban space. I’m strongly supportive of a sticking strongly to the centre here).
- Paul
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