Roads: Roundabouts

[Haljackey]

Roundabouts in London.

Hale-Trafagar. Single lane, also doubles as a rail overpass.

Wonderland-Sunningdale. Two lanes.

Adeliade-Sunningdale: Planned.

Wonderland-Digman: Planned 3 way roundabout

 

[Admiral Beez]

Apologies for necrotizing this thread and the 2017 article below, but as a motorcyclist I love roundabouts. We need more of these in Toronto. For example, at Lake Shore and Jarvis.

Roundabouts bring a new challenge to drivers

We need more clarity on how to navigate these safety zones as they become more common.

www.thestar.com

 

[gabe]

As a pedestrian i hate roundabouts, they are death traps for people crossing the street. Drivers don't yield. Few weeks back in Waterloo i was crossing a roundabout over by Conestoga mall. At the crosswalk i had about 5 or 6 cars in a row zipping around blowing through the "Stop For Pedestrians" sign. They should install stop lights at the crosswalk, or speed humps so people can get across safely.

 

[W. K. Lis]

How they do in the Netherlands...

From link. (Those triangles on the road mean YIELD, which is foreign to most of us!)

 

[Fred.S]

As a driver, cyclist, and pedestrian, I love roundabouts. Mainly because you only have to stop if someone else is in the way, and they're based on yielding behavior, not a green light/right-of-way one. They also make things clear and predictable for those who know how to use them, and for those who don't, they become extra cautious.

However I do have issues with how we implement roundabouts in North America vs Europe. You'll notice the geometry is very different in the Dutch roundabouts vs the Ontario ones. Whereas the Dutch have straight approaches, and a near-perfect circular rotary, bike path, and sidewalk, the Ontario ones really flare out the vehicular approaches. The Ontario approach means cars can go a lot faster on the approach and exit, weakening the forced yield behavior. It also really skews and lengthens the pedestrian approaches and sight-lines. The Dutch also generally just use single-lane roundabouts in urban areas, and have moved beyond multi-lane roundabouts to turbo-roundabouts, with pedestrian-yield conditions in non-urban areas.

One of the better examples in Ontario, which is actually an older one, is the roundabout in Mississauga, at Duke of York and Square One Drive (https://goo.gl/maps/Eoqnqy19oAJMns3U9). I love the near-perpendicular approaches, open sightlines, straight crosswalks, plus the artwork in the middle which is suggestive of the driving direction.

I definitely hope we see more roundabouts in Ontario, but I really wish we would design them closer to European (and especially Dutch) standards.

 

[Johnny Au]

There's a rather new roundabout at Keele and Aurora Sideroad in King Township.

 

[anthio]

The Town of Milton is doing great with roundabouts. The Town of Oakville is also implementing them up North now! You can see one starting to come to life on Sixth Line north of Burnhamthorpe (new road under construction). This is exciting! My problem though is that drivers are not too educated about using roundabouts. Not everybody knows how to signal properly and yes, roundabouts are scary for pedestrians. I've walked across roundabouts before, the "stop for pedestrian" signs are useless if nobody follows them. Hopefully as roundabouts become more common, things get better (fingers crossed!!!) because roundabouts are amazing in many ways.

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder if the North American 'flared' design is to accommodate semi-trailer commercial motor vehicles.

I do like roundabouts, I'm just not convinced people know how to behave in them. Also a motorcyclist, but can often feel vulnerable when a lack of yeilding or over-agressiveness has potentially significant impacts.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The new roundabout at Bloomington and 48 north of Stouffville is a massive one. MTO built it so it's up to their crazy standards - massive overhead freeway style signage for directions, huge radius, etc. It's quite a sight to see.

It also saves a ton of time over the old signalized intersection.. It was a really long signal cycle before as each direction of Bloomington was given its own signal cycle to permit left turns. It was odd.


I know MTO is also planning another roundabout to be built I beleive next summer at 169 and 12 south of Orillia. It's a lot further out from Toronto, but I drive through that intersection regularly. It's currently an uncontrolled intersection on 12 with a stop sign on 169, which results in long backups southbound on 169 on summer weekends, which should be fixed with the roundabout.

I would be surprised if Toronto ever built one. They aren't really great for urban intersections, they are better for areas with limited pedestrian traffic. I wouldn't be one to complain if every rural signalized intersection was converted to a roundabout though. They are worlds better in those types of locations.

 

[W. K. Lis]

As a driver, cyclist, and pedestrian, I love roundabouts. Mainly because you only have to stop if someone else is in the way, and they're based on yielding behavior, not a green light/right-of-way one. They also make things clear and predictable for those who know how to use them, and for those who don't, they become extra cautious.

However I do have issues with how we implement roundabouts in North America vs Europe. You'll notice the geometry is very different in the Dutch roundabouts vs the Ontario ones. Whereas the Dutch have straight approaches, and a near-perfect circular rotary, bike path, and sidewalk, the Ontario ones really flare out the vehicular approaches. The Ontario approach means cars can go a lot faster on the approach and exit, weakening the forced yield behavior. It also really skews and lengthens the pedestrian approaches and sight-lines. The Dutch also generally just use single-lane roundabouts in urban areas, and have moved beyond multi-lane roundabouts to turbo-roundabouts, with pedestrian-yield conditions in non-urban areas.

One of the better examples in Ontario, which is actually an older one, is the roundabout in Mississauga, at Duke of York and Square One Drive (https://goo.gl/maps/Eoqnqy19oAJMns3U9). I love the near-perpendicular approaches, open sightlines, straight crosswalks, plus the artwork in the middle which is suggestive of the driving direction.

I definitely hope we see more roundabouts in Ontario, but I really wish we would design them closer to European (and especially Dutch) standards.

Another problem with Ontario is the lack of YIELD signage. We are overdosed with STOP and ALL-WAY STOP signs, to the point that motorists and cyclists ignore the STOP signs (and treating them as YIELD) because there are too many.

We could start by using pavement YIELD markings at the crosswalks.

From link.

From link.

See link.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

The new roundabout at Bloomington and 48 north of Stouffville is a massive one. MTO built it so it's up to their crazy standards - massive overhead freeway style signage for directions, huge radius, etc. It's quite a sight to see.

It also saves a ton of time over the old signalized intersection.. It was a really long signal cycle before as each direction of Bloomington was given it's own signal cycle to permit left turns. It was odd.


I know MTO is also planning another roundabout to be built I beleive next summer at 169 and 12 south of Orillia. It's a lot further out from Toronto, but I drive through that intersection regularly. It's currently an uncontrolled intersection on 12 with a stop sign on 169, which results in long backups southbound on 169 on summer weekends, which should be fixed with the roundabout.

I would be surprised if Toronto ever built one. They aren't really great for urban intersections, they are better for areas with limited pedestrian traffic. I wouldn't be one to complain if every rural signalized intersection was converted to a roundabout though. They are worlds better in those types of locations.

This roundabout (if it's the one I'm thinking of) feels like a death trap. My girlfriend and I use it fairly regularly when visiting her sister in Brooklyn and it just doesn't feel safe. It's likely due to the fact that it is 2 lane but cars seem to zip around the curve at high speeds and the traffic levels don't leave much room to enter the roundabout. It likely needs to be a larger radius circle somewhere between the high speed roundabout used on Hwy 26 in Collingwood and the existing size.

 

[lenaitch]

The new roundabout at Bloomington and 48 north of Stouffville is a massive one. MTO built it so it's up to their crazy standards - massive overhead freeway style signage for directions, huge radius, etc. It's quite a sight to see.

It also saves a ton of time over the old signalized intersection.. It was a really long signal cycle before as each direction of Bloomington was given it's own signal cycle to permit left turns. It was odd.


I know MTO is also planning another roundabout to be built I beleive next summer at 169 and 12 south of Orillia. It's a lot further out from Toronto, but I drive through that intersection regularly. It's currently an uncontrolled intersection on 12 with a stop sign on 169, which results in long backups southbound on 169 on summer weekends, which should be fixed with the roundabout.

I would be surprised if Toronto ever built one. They aren't really great for urban intersections, they are better for areas with limited pedestrian traffic. I wouldn't be one to complain if every rural signalized intersection was converted to a roundabout though. They are worlds better in those types of locations.

I'll have to check it out next time I am down there. We used to live right on Bloomington and still have friends down there but usually go across Davis Dr. One problem with that area is the volume of gravel trucks - the whole route is a bit of a death trap.

Another problem with Ontario is the lack of YIELD signage. We are overdosed with STOP and ALL-WAY STOP signs, to the point that motorists and cyclists ignore the STOP signs (and treating them as YIELD) because there are too many.

We could start by using pavement YIELD markings at the crosswalks.

From link.

From link.

See link.

The problem with road markings that are intended to have regulatory authority (i.e. you can be charged for not complying) is they are potentially not visible year-round and add costs to road maintenance; winter maintenance and road conditions significantly shorten their life.

 

[crs1026]

The problem with road markings that are intended to have regulatory authority (i.e. you can be charged for not complying) is they are potentially not visible year-round and add costs to road maintenance; winter maintenance and road conditions significantly shorten their life.

There is also the problem that anyone who learned to drive in North America before the millenium was never taught any of the rules or signage of roundabouts. For instance, while I have used roundabouts both here and across the pond, driving on both sides of the road, I would never have guessed that those white triangles are intended to convey a yield. I figured that they were just a general “beware you are reaching the threshold” kind of thing. Thanks for the education!

I am convinced that to deal with both advances in roundabouts, and also the various types of bike lane signage, and probably other things, every Ontario motorist licensed before about 2005 needs to take a mandatory retraining and retesting before they cannext renew their driver’s license. Extreme, yes.... but I am very aware of what we don’t all know. Roads are designed very differently than in the past, and people find out the hard way, if at all.

Oh, and if you really want some fun, try out the Irish style mini-roundabout that they have retrofitted to standard 90 degree intersections. It’s brilliant, and it saves millions of dollars in investment in lights and signals....and they work. But drivers here would need a generation to adapt.

- Apul

 

[MisterF]

^Maybe teach people to drive on the right unless they're passing on highways while we're at it.

And maybe teach engineers how to design cycling infrastructure properly.

 

[W. K. Lis]

When the "Driver's Handbook" was free, I would always pick one up when renewing my family's license plates. They now charge for them. The result is updates and and refreshers are not available in hardcopy. We have to go online to check them out, which many do not.