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Roads: Roundabouts

I lived there too. People may call it a roundabout but it has as much in common with old style circles as it does with a typical modern roundabout. It's not how new roundabouts in Toronto would be designed and its safety no reason to oppose new roundabouts.
 
howl said:
Roundabouts were conceived and designed to keep traffic moving efficiently with minimal stops. At the intersection of two major rural roads is a good place for them. Where they don't belong is in the middle of suburban subdivisions or city neighbourhoods. By keeping the traffic moving you are making it more difficult for other users to get through the intersection. The City of London (UK) has removed most of the roundabouts within it's congestion zone in order to make that part of the City more bike and pedestrian friendly.
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The reason that roundabouts seem to be about keeping (car) traffic flowing is that Canadian and British engineers choose to design them that way. It is not an inherent characteristic of roundabouts.

Our designs have wide flared entrances in order to promote free flowing traffic: maximizing (motor vehicle) capacity and speed. In contrast, the Continental European design is focused on safety, so the arms intersect with the circle at right angles, rather than flowing smoothly around it. Vehicles must make a sharp turn onto and off of the circular carriageway, yielding to pedestrians and cyclists just as Canadian drivers do when pulling onto a main street from a driveway.

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the designs, using two examples with a 65 m diameter.

British style (Waterloo, ON)
Roundabout_UW_S.jpg


Continental style (Amsterdam, NL)
Rotonde65m_AmsterdamS.jpg


The Amsterdam example is actually fully grade separated from bicycle traffic (and the rare pedestrian would walk on the bicycle path) so it doesn't really make my point about being people-friendly. Here's an example where bicycles and pedestrians cross at-grade:
[video=youtube;tYpiMjmhJB0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYpiMjmhJB0[/video]
 

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The Region of Waterloo has produced a new educational video, pointing out the major faux-pas that happen around roundabouts.

It's dinosaur themed, and kinda hilarious.

 
Last edited:
Well.

I had an encounter with possibly the most clueless roundabout user I have ever seen, this past weekend on the Duke of York one in Mississauga. It started off badly enough when she stopped in front of me at the yield sign and there was no one in the roundabout to even yield to.

A few taps on the horn from me and she crawls into the circle.

Then she comes to a stop IN THE ROUNDABOUT as if someone coming from her right might want to join in.

I lean on the horn this time and she slowwwwwly goes 3/4 of the way around, barely accelerating as she exits.

I catch up with her 2-3 traffic lights later and inform her that:

1) one does not stop at yield signs when there is no one to yield to;
2) it is permitted to enter a roundabout directly if there is no traffic currently approaching within the circle;
3) one does not simply stop inside roundabouts
4) she is a colossal moron and if she is unable to comprehend points 1-3 she would be well advised to hand in her licence and toss her car keys into the lake.

I realize roundabouts are (still) unfamiliar to some people but this was just astoundingly bad driving. Is it time for a province-wide information campaign on how to use them?
 
the lemur said:
Well.

I had an encounter with possibly the most clueless roundabout user I have ever seen, this past weekend on the Duke of York one in Mississauga. It started off badly enough when she stopped in front of me at the yield sign and there was no one in the roundabout to even yield to.

A few taps on the horn from me and she crawls into the circle.

Then she comes to a stop IN THE ROUNDABOUT as if someone coming from her right might want to join in.

I lean on the horn this time and she slowwwwwly goes 3/4 of the way around, barely accelerating as she exits.

I catch up with her 2-3 traffic lights later and inform her that:

1) one does not stop at yield signs when there is no one to yield to;
2) it is permitted to enter a roundabout directly if there is no traffic currently approaching within the circle;
3) one does not simply stop inside roundabouts
4) she is a colossal moron and if she is unable to comprehend points 1-3 she would be well advised to hand in her licence and toss her car keys into the lake.

I realize roundabouts are (still) unfamiliar to some people but this was just astoundingly bad driving. Is it time for a province-wide information campaign on how to use them?
Click to expand...
Holy shit man. Your reaction to an incredibly unsure and pensive driver, one who likely has very little experience with roundabouts, is to wail on the horn, and then personally tell them that they're an idiot?

I'm not convinced that she is the one who needs to hand in her license.
 
Markster said:
Holy shit man. Your reaction to an incredibly unsure and pensive driver, one who likely has very little experience with roundabouts, is to wail on the horn, and then personally tell them that they're an idiot?

I'm not convinced that she is the one who needs to hand in her license.
Click to expand...

So someone honking behind you is not a sufficient indication that you need to get moving? Really?
 
the lemur said:
So someone honking behind you is not a sufficient indication that you need to get moving? Really?
Click to expand...
Sound like a lot of drivers who hit the horn as the light turns green. When someone does that to me, I wait a few seconds before moving to piss them off more and say slow down.

Some drivers do need the horn since they are clueless in the first place.

Most likely a driver who has never use an roundabout or seen one before this one and had no idea how they work in the first place. Another failure on MTO part in allowing drivers on the road with no knowledge on roundabouts in the first place.
 
drum118 said:
Sound like a lot of drivers who hit the horn as the light turns green. When someone does that to me, I wait a few seconds before moving to piss them off more and say slow down.

Some drivers do need the horn since they are clueless in the first place.

Most likely a driver who has never use an roundabout or seen one before this one and had no idea how they work in the first place. Another failure on MTO part in allowing drivers on the road with no knowledge on roundabouts in the first place.
Click to expand...

This was the equivalent of someone stopping at a green, moving forward a bit, stopping again ... she had trouble with the yield sign to begin with - at what point does she decide to keep moving through the roundabout? How long should I wait behind her?
 
Be very careful when crossing in a roundabout. I noticed a lot of drivers aren't yielding to pedestrians. I have seen a few close calls.
 
drum118 said:
Most likely a driver who has never use an roundabout or seen one before this one and had no idea how they work in the first place. Another failure on MTO part in allowing drivers on the road with no knowledge on roundabouts in the first place.
Click to expand...

Well, in fairness, my drivers' license is older than most of the roundabouts in Ontario....and until today I had never seen any explanation of how to drive in one. MTO's failure is in not aggressively educating the public.

We see OPP-sponsored commercials about "Stay Safe, Stay Clear" for boaters, but I have never seen an OPP commercial about a roundabout.

The site at http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettingAround/Frequently-Asked-Questions-about-Roundabouts.asp is really good. There should be more of this. I just discovered I was driving them all wrong - a good thing to have been corrected about.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Well, in fairness, my drivers' license is older than most of the roundabouts in Ontario....and until today I had never seen any explanation of how to drive in one. MTO's failure is in not aggressively educating the public.

We see OPP-sponsored commercials about "Stay Safe, Stay Clear" for boaters, but I have never seen an OPP commercial about a roundabout.

The site at http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettingAround/Frequently-Asked-Questions-about-Roundabouts.asp is really good. There should be more of this. I just discovered I was driving them all wrong - a good thing to have been corrected about.

- Paul
Click to expand...
My license is older than Roundabout, but new drivers since the first one was built should be informed by MTO how to use them.

My first experience with one was in Cambridge and had no issues with it since I knew about them before seeing one in person.

The Duke of York is an example how not to use them as well drivers failing to follow the rules in the first place. Then what is this thing and how do I use it. This Roundabout will be remove in the next few years because of the LRT.

Region of Waterloo is the only place I know who tells drivers how to use them in the first place since more are coming to the Region in the coming years.
 
drum118 said:
Region of Waterloo is the only place I know who tells drivers how to use them in the first place since more are coming to the Region in the coming years.
Click to expand...

I recently looked for some information of this sort - there are some good examples out there.

Compare the Ontario MTO version

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/ontario-511/roundabouts.shtml

with

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/roundabouts-184-to-190

http://www.learners-guide.co.uk/lessons/roundabouts/

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/roundabouts/

Our MTO has a way to go, in my opinion.

- Paul
 
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