Roads: Roundabouts

[howl]

I think there is a different is scale between Oxford Circus and Square One. There are 38,000 pph (Oxford Circus), while Rathburn/Duke of York is predicted to have 3542 vph in 2031. Unless you think thousands of people will start walking to Square One, this isn't the place for a pedestrian scrable.

The point is some people (including the authors of D21) seem to think roundabouts are the end-all-and-be-all for solving traffic probelms in every situation. Roundabouts have their place, but not in busy urban cores. If the City of Mississauga is trying to create a pedestrian-oriented city centre they shouldn't including infrastucture that makes driving more-attractive and walking less-attractive. While MCC will never be as busy as Oxford Circus they should at least try to move in the right direction.

 

[nfitz]

The point is some people (including the authors of D21) seem to think roundabouts are the end-all-and-be-all for solving traffic probelms in every situation.

Agreed. Roundabouts could help in a lot of GTA intersections. But not all ... there is space at Yonge-Dundas to build a roundabout, and put the square in the middle. But it's not suitable because of the pedestrian traffic ... not sure it would work well with the Dundas streetcar either ... though it would benefit from a short tunnel (even like it is now!).

Piccadilly Circus is insane for pedestrians - seems to take forever to get across, with huge hordes of people; I have been there for a few years now though ... not sure if it's been altered ... heck, I'm not sure if it was a full roundabout last time I was there ... I've never driven in central London ... I tend to take the train in, and park further away (you know ... like in Coventry).

Roundabouts have their place, but not in busy urban cores.

By no stretch of the imagination however, is the corner of Duke of York and Square One Drive a busy urban area. It's a suburban artery and the entrance to a shopping mall! This is exactly where you do see roundabouts in England.

If the City of Mississauga is trying to create a pedestrian-oriented city centre they shouldn't including infrastucture that makes driving more-attractive and walking less-attractive.

Perhaps in a hundred years, it might be an issue. But in the meantime, the money saved from not having to run the traffic lights will more than pay for any future conversion.

 

[Mapleson]

The point is some people (including the authors of D21) seem to think roundabouts are the end-all-and-be-all for solving traffic probelms in every situation. Roundabouts have their place, but not in busy urban cores. If the City of Mississauga is trying to create a pedestrian-oriented city centre they shouldn't including infrastucture that makes driving more-attractive and walking less-attractive. While MCC will never be as busy as Oxford Circus they should at least try to move in the right direction.

There is no one perfect solution, but each techology does have a proper place as well as limitations. What is important is finding the best solution for a particular area. From the choices available: yield signs, stop signs, signalization, roundabouts, and grade seperation; a roundabout is the most cost-effective solution that balances the needs of the current and predicted usage of that intersection. As each approach to a roundabout is equal to a yield sign, a car must stop to allow a pedestrian to cross. With flow dividers, a pedestrian only needs cross one direction of traffic at a time.

Agreed. Roundabouts could help in a lot of GTA intersections. But not all ... there is space at Yonge-Dundas to build a roundabout, and put the square in the middle. But it's not suitable because of the pedestrian traffic ... not sure it would work well with the Dundas streetcar either ... though it would benefit from a short tunnel (even like it is now!).

Piccadilly Circus is insane for pedestrians - seems to take forever to get across, with huge hordes of people; I have been there for a few years now though ... not sure if it's been altered ... heck, I'm not sure if it was a full roundabout last time I was there ... I've never driven in central London ... I tend to take the train in, and park further away (you know ... like in Coventry).

By no stretch of the imagination however, is the corner of Duke of York and Square One Drive a busy urban area. It's a suburban artery and the entrance to a shopping mall! This is exactly where you do see roundabouts in England.

Perhaps in a hundred years, it might be an issue. But in the meantime, the money saved from not having to run the traffic lights will more than pay for any future conversion.

I've driven in London a handful of times, and it is not for the faint of heart. Whenever I could avoid it, I'd park at Heathrow and take the express connect into town. That said, the UK has 7 of the top 10 worst cities for driving. We still have another 25-50 years until Toronto gets as bad.

If you want to talk about pedestrian-unfriendly roundabouts, head over to Swindon.

 

[nfitz]

If you want to talk about pedestrian-unfriendly roundabouts, head over to Swindon.

It's not that bad for pedestrians ... there's traffic signals on each of the 5 roads that enter the magic roundabout ... they never into the roundabout itself. Looks a lot easier to cross than Picadilly Circus where there was 6 major roads coming in, a lot more pedestrians, and no where to stand.

The truth though, is I never get off the A419 in Swindon ... those old Roman roads are great!

 

[Mapleson]

It's not that bad for pedestrians ... there's traffic signals on each of the 5 roads that enter the magic roundabout ... they never into the roundabout itself. Looks a lot easier to cross than Picadilly Circus where there was 6 major roads coming in, a lot more pedestrians, and no where to stand.

The truth though, is I never get off the A419 in Swindon ... those old Roman roads are great!

It's probably better than I remember for Brits. I had a tendency to look the wrong way whenever crossing the road, and there it's a bit tricking knowing from which way to expect a car. Was a bit of a hike up to the footy.

It'll be interesting to see the final product of Picadilly next year at the Olympics. From Oxford Circus, seems like most of the pedestrian barriers will disappear.

 

[drum118]

July 26
Had a look at the work taking place for the Sq One Dr and Duke of York Roundabout today and did some head scratching on a few things.

The section of DoY at Rathburn is 4 lanes that turn into a single lane 50m from the intersection. This also apply to the south section also.

They were pouring the curb and could not get any good shots.

There is a curb coming off DoY onto Sq One Dr East that takes up most of lane 2 for a very short section. Going west, the curb has been moved to the north leaving enough room for 3 lanes. I expect to see the #1 westbound lane to become a centre section.

The new connection to the north parking lot by Zeller is in place for a 4 way intersection compare to the existing 3 way.

Until some more curb is pour as well the layout of the circle, I will with hold my views at this time. I support Roundabouts.

At this time, I don't know of any layover bays been plan for these road 100%.

I have move the Sheridan thread on this Roundabout here.

 

[Dan416]

Thanks for the pics.

 

[mpd618]

In Waterloo Region, it's gotten to the point that virtually every road project report explicitly addresses the question "Were roundabouts considered?", even when it's not really relevant. Most new suburban roads seem to have them, and many reconstruction projects include roundabouts. The stats here have shown that they somewhat increase the number of fender-benders, but substantially decrease the number of injury collisions.

The recent contentious projects are: a three-lane roundabout adjacent to a high school (under construction), a roundabout in front of a landmark structure (under review), and rebuilding an entire road to have 11 roundabouts (planned).

 

[reaperexpress]

In Waterloo Region, it's gotten to the point that virtually every road project report explicitly addresses the question "Were roundabouts considered?", even when it's not really relevant. Most new suburban roads seem to have them, and many reconstruction projects include roundabouts. The stats here have shown that they somewhat increase the number of fender-benders, but substantially decrease the number of injury collisions.

The recent contentious projects are: a three-lane roundabout adjacent to a high school (under construction), a roundabout in front of a landmark structure (under review), and rebuilding an entire road to have 11 roundabouts (planned).

Waterloo certainly seems to be in love with roundabouts. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it's great that they've decided to try something different. The thing is that they seem to have decided that their roundabout is the solution to everything and so have not really looked into its design further than the fact it's a roundabout. From what I can tell, Waterloo installs a two-lane standard-sized roundabout absolutely everywhere. They should try installing roundabouts in different lane numbers and sizes to suit the location. For example, Ira Needles is a relatively low-traffic, high speed road, so I think the best option would have been a single lane roundabout, which is much more user friendly and is probably safer. The bike lane ends before the roundabout, so they obviously haven't taken note of any of the variety of methods used around the world (the Netherlands comes to mind), to accomodate bike lanes in roundabouts.

 

[mpd618]

From what I can tell, Waterloo installs a two-lane standard-sized roundabout absolutely everywhere. They should try installing roundabouts in different lane numbers and sizes to suit the location.

There are currently plenty of one- and two-lane roundabouts, and a three-lane roundabout under construction with many more planned.

For example, Ira Needles is a relatively low-traffic, high speed road, so I think the best option would have been a single lane roundabout, which is much more user friendly and is probably safer. The bike lane ends before the roundabout, so they obviously haven't taken note of any of the variety of methods used around the world (the Netherlands comes to mind), to accomodate bike lanes in roundabouts.

There are actually substantial complaints about high traffic on that road, and claims about it not having been built wide enough. I believe some of the roundabouts on it may not have lane markings, as that was something Waterloo Region was experimenting with. As for bike lanes - without about a ten-fold increase in our cycling infrastructure investment (which might not be saying a lot), I think the safest and best approach is exactly to end the bike lane before the roundabout; having an on-road bike lane inside a roundabout sounds like a recipe for collisions.

 

[Markster]

On Ira Needles, all the roundabouts have been built 2 lanes wide. They are officially 2 lane roundabouts according to the region, but have no lane markings painted. The region obviously knows how to paint lines on a 2 lane roundabout, as the end of hwy 85 attests, but they seem to be trying to enforce extra caution by making things a bit more of a free-for-all.

Notable single-lane roundabouts:
Union/Margaret, Bridge/Lancaster, Connestoga Mall entrance.

mpd: Where is the "roundabout in front of a landmark structure" you speak of?

 

[mpd618]

mpd: Where is the "roundabout in front of a landmark structure" you speak of?

Proposed roundabout and general redesign of the King / Fountain area in Preston - in front of the old Preston Springs Hotel. It's probably a matter of adjacent landowners trying to get someone else's land to be taken for widening/roundabouts, not theirs.

 

[BMO]

just drove down Yeomans Rd parallel to Bathurst St (and just west of it) between Wilson and Sheppard and there are a few roundabouts. Although they have four-way stop signs at the roundabouts which makes them rather useless IMO

 

[drum118]

July 31, 2011 visit

[video=youtube;T-SgdFqRhh8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-SgdFqRhh8[/video]

 

[drum118]

Aug 06
The road is ready for paving this coming week. The south sidewalk still has to be pour.

Pavers are on site.

The Roundabout is different lane width with 2 lanes for the east-west section and that going to cause some nice action mess going into Sq One Mall.