Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[arcum]

Some good information here on why the highway is required: http://www.gta-west.com/pdf/11-26-15/Section 03 - Background and Process.pdf

It's not unusual for a growing city to need more roads to move goods and services and the GTA has grown dramatically without increasing the number of highways much.

 

[salsa]

GTA West highway: Forward thinking or retro mistake?

I'd say it's a retro mistake. This will just encourage more sprawl and get more people in their cars.

 

[dunkalunk]

So, I'm kind of curious. If the 407 ever really that busy? If the province decided to start tolling the 401 based on time-of-day congestion, would enough traffic demand shift to the 407 that building a new highway would become unnecessary? In spite of being political suicide, putting in toll infrastructure is probably a less-expensive project than building a new 400-series highway.

 

[salsa]

So, I'm kind of curious. If the 407 ever really that busy? If the province decided to start tolling the 401 based on time-of-day congestion, would enough traffic demand shift to the 407 that building a new highway would become unnecessary? In spite of being political suicide, putting in toll infrastructure is probably a less-expensive project than building a new 400-series highway.

I hope Jim Flaherty went to hell for his role in selling off the 407.

 

[Translude15]

I hope Jim Flaherty went to hell for his role in selling off the 407.

I don't know the usage figures for the 407 but could part of the GTA's current congestion woes, particularly on the 401, be attributed to the fact that the region's main E-W bypass is well under capacity?

 

[wopchop]

I don't know the usage figures for the 407 but could part of the GTA's current congestion woes, particularly on the 401, be attributed to the fact that the region's main E-W bypass is well under capacity?

I think this is probably right. If both highways were tolled, or both were not tolled, I think we would see a greater balance in congestion.

 

[11th]

I think this is probably right. If both highways were tolled, or both were not tolled, I think we would see a greater balance in congestion.

I wonder if tolling either just the trucks, or only the cars on the 407 could work. Then you can get either lots of trucks (,or cars) off the busiest stretch of 401.

 

[wopchop]

I wonder if tolling either just the trucks, or only the cars on the 407 could work. Then you can get either lots of trucks (,or cars) off the busiest stretch of 401.

It's a good question. But you would first need to determine the origin/destinations of all of these trucks. Are they using the 401 instead of the 407 because it is on-route to their destinations? Or are they simply avoiding tolls as they cross the GTA? Obviously there is some of both, but what percentage?

For truck-traffic that is passing through the GTA, which currently mostly uses the 401, I don't think the situation will really get better until the 407 East Phase 2 extension / East Durham Link is open. Even then, I imagine a lot of trucks will continue to use the untolled 401 because of 407 tolls.

It looks like they are touting this GTA West Highway as an answer to truck congestion (especially with the cargo only lanes) but what truck traffic are they targeting? 401 traffic? If that's the case, then the 407 route seems like the obvious congestion reliever, not a new billion-dollar highway.

 

[Translude15]

It's a good question. But you would first need to determine the origin/destinations of all of these trucks. Are they using the 401 instead of the 407 because it is on-route to their destinations? Or are they simply avoiding tolls as they cross the GTA? Obviously there is some of both, but what percentage?

For truck-traffic that is passing through the GTA, which currently mostly uses the 401, I don't think the situation will really get better until the 407 East Phase 2 extension / East Durham Link is open. Even then, I imagine a lot of trucks will continue to use the untolled 401 because of 407 tolls.

It looks like they are touting this GTA West Highway as an answer to truck congestion (especially with the cargo only lanes) but what truck traffic are they targeting? 401 traffic? If that's the case, then the 407 route seems like the obvious congestion reliever, not a new billion-dollar highway.

Very good points. I would imagine the western portion of the proposed GTA West would aim to alleviate congestion on the 410 as well. I would imagine this would offer a viable secondary route for truckers going through northern Peel as well.

 

[innsertnamehere]

So, I'm kind of curious. If the 407 ever really that busy? If the province decided to start tolling the 401 based on time-of-day congestion, would enough traffic demand shift to the 407 that building a new highway would become unnecessary? In spite of being political suicide, putting in toll infrastructure is probably a less-expensive project than building a new 400-series highway.

The 407 isn't exactly empty. Get on it at 5pm on a weekday and the thing is full, or about as full as it can be without becoming congested.
Up until this summer when they added an extra lane between the 400 and 427 that stretch would regularly congest at rush hours, even.

 

[Haljackey]

Pic of the 407 from asphalt planet

Full size: http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/407_cl_60_east_t_Aug14_24x16.jpg

More pics http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_407-409_images/Hwy407_p3_images.htm

12 lanes, but looks as though only 8 or so are actually needed. The extra lane or two really only helps out during peak hours.

 

[Transportfan]

Wow, the 407 has as many lanes as the 401 now.

Regarding the proposed GTA West highway (413?), the 410/10 transition would be made obsolete while still relatively new. Lack of foresight by the MTO!

 

[innsertnamehere]

401 has 18 lanes at its widest part.

407 is also largely designed to max out at 10 lanes, except between the 400 and 427 where it is the 12 lanes pictured.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

I guess this isn't surprising, given how much North Brampton is sprawling out. Unfortunately, a new highway will just put even more development pressure on the areas further NW and lead to even more sprawl. Traffic is made worse when former two-lane rural highways are converted into suburban arterials with long traffic lights every few hundred metres.

Ironically, even though I'm against it, I would almost certainly end up using this highway between 427 and Airport Road, since Airport itself has become an increasingly slow route North from Highway 7. Of course, without the prior sprawl this highway wouldn't have been required, so basically the province will be subsidizing developers and those who have already bought cheap houses (relatively speaking) in the area.

 

[arcum]

This highway would make a nice ring if it was extended even east of Highway 400, to 404, and then to the 407 east of Markham or West Durham Link.

I'm curious how it would handle connecting to the 410, and how soon the 427 will be extended north.