CDL.TO
Moderator
That's not true in the slightest. Much of the TCH in Nova Scotia and most of it in Newfoundland is still 2 lanes.
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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion
- Thread starter Haljackey
- Start date
That's not true in the slightest. Much of the TCH in Nova Scotia and most of it in Newfoundland is still 2 lanes.
1) About half of the distance of the TCH in Nova Scotia is 4 lanes. It's only east of Antigonish where it isn't.
2) Even if you total up the parts that aren't, Ontario is still by far the largest gap.
I did mis-speak when I said that none of it east of the QC-NB border was, however, the majority of it is. I wouldn't exactly qualify that as "not true in the slightest". My point was that Ontario has by far the highest amount of non-4 lane Trans Canada highway in the country. Even percentage-wise, if compared with NFLD, I'd imagine it would be pretty close.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Okay. To clairify, the quote:
Is not true in the slightest.
Is not true in the slightest.
Mulder
Active Member
Really? Your critizing ontarios portion of the trans-canada highway as not being 4 lanes?
What does it benfit to Ontario if Highway 7/407 was expanded from Markham to Ottawa? Especially when the 401 already exsists. That would be the most heavyily used route of all the upgrading. But does it warrent 9 billion worth of upgrades (the average 2 lane high costs 22million per KM)
There's also multiple routes though Ontario that is classified as the Trans-Canada Route.
Dan416
Senior Member
The 410's extensions were all within Brampton. They don't even come close to a 16 km extension of the 404 when the 404 already goes much further north than the 410 or 427.
The 401 collector/express extension I'm referring to is the one that was started either last year or the year before. I'm sure there were extensions before, but not in my recent memory. As long as I can remember, there's been the bottleneck at the 410 where all the express and collector lanes merge together.
The current phase is to Hurontario. Some future phase is to the Credit River I believe (just before Mississauga Rd). If you ask me, the express lanes should at least reach Mavis Rd.
Why nto extend the 410 and 427? I mean, 400 and 404 go to God knows where so why not extend the 410 and 427 to middle of nowhere as well? At least the 410 could reach Wasaga and Collingwood.
jwill
Active Member
Just because we have 1 highway to nowhere (404 extn) doesn't mean we need 2 more (410, 427).
Dan416
Senior Member
I see no reason not to have an expressway to take me right to Wasaga Beach.
jwill
Active Member
I can think of better ways to spend millions of dollars, like connecting the 401 to a new international crossing and the interstate, for example.
lead82
Senior Member
I see plenty of reason to build a highway up to Collingwood. It would be a boon to Collingwood, Wasaga and Blue Mountain. The 400 is currently packed from Barrie to Toronto with recreational traffic each weekend. Extend the 410 up to Collingwood and the 400 would have much less traffic and improve the connections to the north.
To make sure the 410 extension doesn't become a commuter highway into Toronto, make the ramps infrequent. Build one exit per major town, ie Orangeville. Also, all new highways should be tolled at a reasonable rate, say 5 cents per km or a flat rate like $5 per trip. I'd rather pay $5 to go up to to enjoy a day at the beach and spend say 1hr commuting than deal with the hell that is the weekend commute up to Wasaga/Collingwood on the 400.
On the other side, with better connections, Collingwood would benefit with more development and become a major destination for retirees and vacationers. Right now the development is hindered by a lack of transportation options. All of the roads to Collingwood/Wasaga are one lane minor provincial roads. It would also greatly shorten the commute up to some of the best nature Ontario has - Bruce Peninsula. Currently that's a 3.5-4hr treck from GTA. With an expressway connection, that would cut that by 1/3rd at least.
Alternatively of course, we could spend money and build a train service up to Collingwood. The only problem is that rail infrastructure will never be justified here. Why spend billions of dollars on a train that make go up less than a handful times a day.
To make sure the 410 extension doesn't become a commuter highway into Toronto, make the ramps infrequent. Build one exit per major town, ie Orangeville. Also, all new highways should be tolled at a reasonable rate, say 5 cents per km or a flat rate like $5 per trip. I'd rather pay $5 to go up to to enjoy a day at the beach and spend say 1hr commuting than deal with the hell that is the weekend commute up to Wasaga/Collingwood on the 400.
On the other side, with better connections, Collingwood would benefit with more development and become a major destination for retirees and vacationers. Right now the development is hindered by a lack of transportation options. All of the roads to Collingwood/Wasaga are one lane minor provincial roads. It would also greatly shorten the commute up to some of the best nature Ontario has - Bruce Peninsula. Currently that's a 3.5-4hr treck from GTA. With an expressway connection, that would cut that by 1/3rd at least.
Alternatively of course, we could spend money and build a train service up to Collingwood. The only problem is that rail infrastructure will never be justified here. Why spend billions of dollars on a train that make go up less than a handful times a day.
doady
Senior Member
69/400 goes to Sudbury, not exactly "God knows where", and is a vital link to Northern Ontario and Western Canada. 400 extension makes far more sense than 410 or 427.
I don't support the 404 extension to Pefferlaw (population: 3000). What's exactly at Pefferlaw (population: 3000) or beyond that justifies freeway? One wrong doesn't justify other wrongs.
Yes, there's multiple Trans-Canada Routes. And that's why the discussion was focused on 400/417 connections to Sudbury, North Bay, and Sault Ste Marie, and why no mention was made of the 407 and a Markham-to-Ottawa connection. Seriously...
Even though Highway 7 is part of the Trans Canada, it's not part of the main route. The main route is Highway 17, which goes up into Northern Ontario, and then goes into Manitoba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TransCanadaHWY.png). This is the route that I was talking about should at least be upgraded to a Super 2.
And just for clarification, Highway 7 and Highway 407 are two completely different highways. They run parallel to eachother through Durham, York, and Peel regions, but they are technically different highways (meaning that the construction of 407 didn't replace any sections of Highway 7, unlike when they built Highway 416, which replaced the entire southern end of the highway, from Century Rd to the 401). Any widening of Highway 7 into a Super 2 or a four lane highway would likely only occur east of Highway 35/115, or west of the GTA (likely between Guelph and Kitchener).
Dan416
Senior Member
jwill
Active Member
Do you really think its a good idea to build 100 km of 400-series highway just to shave a few minutes off a weekend trip for the privileged class? There are far more pressing transportation concerns in Ontario that affect a lot more people, a lot more often. And we can solve them without encouraging sprawl and leap-frogging over the greenbelt.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Do you really think that only the "privileged class" travel up to Wasaga/Collingwood? What kind of world do you live in? My family was hardly well off and we spent a couple of sunday's each summer there. Not saying that these should be priority #1 but the region would reap an economic benefit if there was better transportation options to get there..
jwill
Active Member
I don't care who goes up to Wasaga or Collingwood. What I care about is not spending money to build 100 km of highway to just sit empty 5 days a week and 6 months a year. And the idea that it will magically eliminate congestion on summer weekends is laughable, considering the state of the 400.
By the way, I live in a world where literally millions of people are stuck in congestion twice a day because the golden horseshoe lacks viable transportation alternatives. I would love to stimulate the economy in small towns across Ontario, but I would prefer to use that money to eliminate wasted time in our largest economy.
By the way, I live in a world where literally millions of people are stuck in congestion twice a day because the golden horseshoe lacks viable transportation alternatives. I would love to stimulate the economy in small towns across Ontario, but I would prefer to use that money to eliminate wasted time in our largest economy.