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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

gweed123 said:
Thanks to both of you for the explanation. I know that the 69 twinning is being built to full 400-series standards because it's intended to be part of Hwy 400. I just wasn't sure where along the spectrum the other projects were going to lie. And yes, going with 400-series standards around Sudbury and North Bay makes sense, given that it's the urban sections that need that freeway configuration most. Eventually it will just become a matter of stitching those various freeway segments together.
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MTO completed an EA for between Sudbury and Mattawa a few years ago for twinning of 17 and it was to full 400 series standards. To me this shows intent for the super long term being that the 417 will run to at least Sudbury.. Perhaps Sault Ste Marie. The existing twinned part of 17 outside of the Soo right now is only at grade though.
 
I noticed that the document used the term "hwy 11/17", which could mean funding the completion of the project between Thunder Bay and Nipigon, although it does mention the highway between Kenora and the border, which is Hwy 17 only.

Many of the northern realignments get bogged down in First Nations land negotiations.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Depends a lot on the location.

MTO's long term plans around Sudbury and North Bay are for full 400 series standards, while further north at Kenora and Thunder Bay it's being built to an even lower standard than 11, with almost no interchanges, mostly just an extra carriageway and improved grades and alignment.
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That's pretty much the standard in the Prairies. Manitoba has pretty much zero km of freeway.
 
innsertnamehere said:
MTO completed an EA for between Sudbury and Mattawa a few years ago for twinning of 17 and it was to full 400 series standards. To me this shows intent for the super long term being that the 417 will run to at least Sudbury.. Perhaps Sault Ste Marie. The existing twinned part of 17 outside of the Soo right now is only at grade though.
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About 25 to 12 years ago, North Bay region of MTO had a rogue Director who did a lot of things not sanctioned by the Head Office folks. I believe this plan was one of those. Planning could be done in the Region, but construction needed approval from QP. This will sit on the shelf for quite some time. Maybe just the North Bay by-pass, which would start near the 11 and 17 south interchange, and continue east of 11, and ending north of 17 near where 17B joins in. That's maybe 10 km.
 
Haljackey said:
401 widening Tilbury to London

More details from the London Free Press:
PCs keeping promise with $1B highway expansion
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This would be a key, almost underrated improvement in the provincial highway network as this corridor handles so much commerce transport. Completing this by the time the Gordie Howe bridge crossing is ready would be a huge boost for the province.
 
The 401 being 6 lanes to Kingston is more important if you want to discuss long distance highway widenings. The 400 northbound to Barrie and the 401 to Kitchener is even more over capacity, though those already have programs underway (albeit they will take a while).

The PCs promised to widen the 401 to the Quebec border in their platform, so perhaps we will see a fully 6 lane 401 in the nearish term? That would be 800+km of 6 lane highway..

Mind you I really don't think 6 lanes are needed past Kingston.. Maybe at most to the 416.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The 401 being 6 lanes to Kingston is more important if you want to discuss long distance highway widenings. The 400 northbound to Barrie and the 401 to Kitchener is even more over capacity, though those already have programs underway (albeit they will take a while).

The PCs promised to widen the 401 to the Quebec border in their platform, so perhaps we will see a fully 6 lane 401 in the nearish term? That would be 800+km of 6 lane highway..

Mind you I really don't think 6 lanes are needed past Kingston.. Maybe at most to the 416.
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I think it was east of 416, but just a few years ago they had 401 down to a single lane for long term bridge construction. I think it was there Canada Day, August holiday, and Labour Day at least. The next rehab cycle for the bridge is ~25 years from now, so they could likely combine the widening with replacement of those bridges.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The 401 being 6 lanes to Kingston is more important if you want to discuss long distance highway widenings. The 400 northbound to Barrie and the 401 to Kitchener is even more over capacity, though those already have programs underway (albeit they will take a while).

The PCs promised to widen the 401 to the Quebec border in their platform, so perhaps we will see a fully 6 lane 401 in the nearish term? That would be 800+km of 6 lane highway..

Mind you I really don't think 6 lanes are needed past Kingston.. Maybe at most to the 416.
Click to expand...

The SW Ontario focus is on safety. In general the grassy median is a lot narrower and the road has a lot more fatalities in SW Ontario vs towards Kingston. The extra lane is just a bonus...plus planning for post-Gordie Howe bridge
 
That area of the 401, as you can see in the picture, also has extremely heavy levels of transport traffic which adds to the safety issues. The area is so dangerous due to the heavy crosswinds which transports are very sensitive to. This is why the median has been pressed for decades and the 3 lanes makes a lot of sense.

Here in BC we can only dream of such an initiative. The province cancelled an intended 3 lane widening of HWY#1 to Chilliwack and even Abbotsford despite carrying 106,000 vehicles a day and the provinces busiest transport route. All we are getting is a congested and unsafe 4 lane bridge between NW & Surrey to be replaced by another 4 lane bridge.

You Ontarians don't know how good you've got it
 
Over the long weekend I drove the 401 from London to Windsor & back and the 402 from London to Sarina & back.

Difference is night and day. 402 is much better designed. Wide grass median, straighter sections. There are also tall grasses and trees in the 402 median that help reduce noise and glare from oncoming traffic at night. The distance between the carriageways also helps. Tree lining in most sections helps control the crosswinds.

The 401 between Tilbury and London is awful. So much more truck traffic on the 401 too compared to the 402, losing the third lane is annoying. Also, with such a narrow grass median, the 401 sucks at night due to glare from oncoming traffic lights - a concrete median would fix that, the cable barrier doesn't. Few / young trees along the road doesn't do much to control the crosswinds.
 
I’ve noticed for a while that new overpasses being constructed for new or existing highways along existing arterial roads usually have the new overpass built offset from the existing road. I know this is to reduce/prevent disruptions as closing an existing overpass (closing an old 2 lane overpass to build a new 4 lane one) or through-fare is not the best decision, but what about new highways?

I’m mostly talking about Highway 407 East here but others still apply, why build a new overpass (with capacity for 4 lanes) that slightly curves around the existing road (which is at grade) and moving traffic to the new slightly diverted overpass instead of building a temporary road, move traffic to new road, demolish the existing road, build a new overpass, move traffic to new overpass, demolish temporary road?

Is it not worth the cost of building and demolishing the temporary road to avoid having a curve in the new road on approach to the new overpass?
 
Not an engineer but I would imagine that would be massively costly. Unless you are somehow able to maintain load restriction, the temporary bridge and its underpinnings would have to be just as robust as the new one; you're building two bridges. Gone are the days of hoisting in a Bailey Bridge.
 
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