Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[innsertnamehere]

construction certainly slows down the collectors at the 427 right now, at least for the collectors. The eastbound 401 - northbound 427 ramp is under reconstruction and is limited to a single lane, creating a huge bottleneck.

as for the traffic, on Easter Sunday lots of people are driving to see family. That is certainly an unusually large amount of traffic for a Sunday.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

The only sections of the TCH in Ontario in need of four laning are Highway 17 from the Manitoba border to Kenora (and the Highway 71 cut-off); the Highway 11-17 junction west of Thunder Bay to Thunder Bay, Thunder Bay to the Highway 11-17 junction near Nipigon, Sault Ste. Marie to Whitefish (west of Sudbury), Sudbury-North Bay, the first 10 kilometres east of North Bay on 17, and Deep River to Arnprior.

That's about half of the remaining two-lane sections of the main TCH route through Ontario. It was hard enough completing Highway 17 between Nipigon and Sault Ste. Marie. Many, if not most through trucks opt for the older, longer - but easier - route via Highway 11 through Hearst and Cochrane anyway.

MTO has planning is underway for twinning multiple sections of Highway 17. This website has 3 of the studies, from 11/17 to east of Mattawa. The available materials show a significant re-alignment most of the way, but also suggest a 20-year timeframe.

 

[gweed123]

MTO has planning is underway for twinning multiple sections of Highway 17. This website has 3 of the studies, from 11/17 to east of Mattawa. The available materials show a significant re-alignment most of the way, but also suggest a 20-year timeframe.

The question is how much of that timeframe is design and construction and how much of that is dragging it out because of funding constraints? If the project is fully funded, I would imagine they could cut that timeframe in half if they wanted to.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Those plans have it being built as a full freeway.. interesting. I would have thought that it would be like the dual carriageways they are building in Thunder Bay and Kenora.

 

[gweed123]

Those plans have it being built as a full freeway.. interesting. I would have thought that it would be like the dual carriageways they are building in Thunder Bay and Kenora.

Indeed, that surprised me as well. Perhaps the long-term vision (long-term before last week I mean, when suddenly the entire 17 is being upgraded) was to have 417 end at the 400 in Sudbury.

Right now there are immediate plans to extend 417 westward past Arnprior, and short/medium term plans to extend it to Renfrew. I'm sure once that's in the design phase there will be calls to plan for the extension to Pembroke/Petawawa. If this Mattawa-North Bay section becomes a reality, then it becomes a matter of 'closing the gap' between Mattawa and Petawawa. Unfortunately though, that's some of the toughest terrain on the entire 17 route through Ontario.

I guess we'll find out in the budget or shortly afterwards what the plan is.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'm hoping they are willing to fund some other highway projects with this as well. Twinning highway 7 to Perth, twin highway 26 to Collingwood, super 2 highway 6 to Caledonia, etc.

 

[gweed123]

I'm hoping they are willing to fund some other highway projects with this as well. Twinning highway 7 to Perth, twin highway 26 to Collingwood, super 2 highway 6 to Caledonia, etc.

Very true. Right now for Eastern Ontario the only 2 highway projects that are really needed are 417 westward to Renfrew or Petawawa, and Highway 7 to Perth. And I guess the 417 widenings in Ottawa, but those will be completed by next year, so they don't really count.

Considering the population of Eastern Ontario, it probably has the lowest dollars asked for for highway projects per person in Ontario.

 

[doady]

417 extension isn't just about Eastern Ontario is it? It's about Montreal too. Considering the population of Ottawa + Montreal, it's surprising 417 only goes as far it does. And it seems Highway 17 has reached its limit too. Check this out:

Twinning of 'death highway' a slow work in progress
There were more than 56 fatal crashes on Highway 17 from 2001 to 2010
...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/twinning-of-death-highway-a-slow-work-in-progress-1.2431276

 

[innsertnamehere]

With any luck it's sped up by this springs budget..

 

[gweed123]

417 extension isn't just about Eastern Ontario is it? It's about Montreal too. Considering the population of Ottawa + Montreal, it's surprising 417 only goes as far it does. And it seems Highway 17 has reached its limit too. Check this out:

Twinning of 'death highway' a slow work in progress
There were more than 56 fatal crashes on Highway 17 from 2001 to 2010
...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/twinning-of-death-highway-a-slow-work-in-progress-1.2431276

Don't really see how Montreal factors into this very much. A lot of the traffic on the 2 lane 17 is between the City of Ottawa and the Ottawa Valley, at least until Renfrew. But yes, it is unfortunate that this highway has claimed so many lives.

With any luck it's sped up by this springs budget..

Here's hoping. It may not change how people vote though. In much of the Ottawa Valley, they would elect a fencepost as long as it was painted blue.

 

[TOareaFan]

construction certainly slows down the collectors at the 427 right now, at least for the collectors. The eastbound 401 - northbound 427 ramp is under reconstruction and is limited to a single lane, creating a huge bottleneck.

This is an incredible bottleneck....made worse by the fact the heavy southbound 410 traffic does not have an option to go to the express so a large volume of people just forced to join that line.

For me, I have not taken the 401 there since being stuck in it the first day......going down 403 to Cawthra to QEW is far quicker if your ultimate destination is downtown.

 

[MisterF]

I agree that many sections aren't needed, such as Sault Ste. Marie to Thunder Bay, but other sections are perfectly excusable. If you are looking for an off north america example take a look at the G30 in China. It runs over 2,300 kilometres to the Kazakhstan border, with only a few smaller cities along the way. (being china there are more than northern Ontario but lower auto ownership rates offset that)

Also, I believe Moscow - St. Petersburg has a sort of RIRO for much of the length, and Russia is famous for its underbuilt infrastructure anyway. I dropped down into streetview on a random part of the road between Moscow and St. Petersburg and got this.

That one in China is interesting but still quite a bit more populated than northern Ontario. Looks like a long corridor of decent density. Plus the passenger rail line parallel to the highway hasn't been reduced to near irrelevance like the Canadian has. On the contrary, it's being upgraded to high speed rail.

As for Russia, yes they have infrastructure issues. But my point was that what they do spend tends to go to trains and not highways. That highway seems to have passing lanes in a lot of spots but most of it is nothing like a freeway. Of course, Western countries are probably more relevant comparisons than Russia and China.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the problem is that there is no real comparison, Ontario's situation with highway 17 is unique. low population, extremely far distances, but also a key link in the countries highway network and at one point the only road connecting eastern and western Canada.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Photo update of the 404 extension by Sonysnob at SSP.

Signs up, everything looks almost ready. I'm honestly surprised its concrete though (apparently only the northern 5km or so), Its unusual to see concrete this far north. (I guess the 407 has it, but this is still a considerable distance further)

 

[MisterF]

the problem is that there is no real comparison, Ontario's situation with highway 17 is unique. low population, extremely far distances, but also a key link in the countries highway network and at one point the only road connecting eastern and western Canada.

Those arguments could be used to support an equivalent rail network, which would be no less feasible or expensive, which again is the main point I've been making. The situation in northern Ontario really isn't that unique, other large countries have population centres separated by thousands of kilometres of sparsely populated areas and limited road networks. That's not a compelling reason to build a major expressway through those areas.