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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

I have a feeling that planning a full 401 connection is the next step in the process after they get this initial section past the design phase. This project can move this fast because a lot of work has been done in advance - the right-of-way for a twin roadway is already graded most of the way through and functionally just requires a handful of new overpasses and interchanges, with very little of this being on a new alignment.

A third section westward connecting to the 401 with a freeway-to-freeway interchange will arguably be more complicated and take longer since it would require both a brand new alignment and a more complicated interchange structure. Getting the basic 4-lane connection with Colonel Talbot/Sunset was likely deemed satisfactory in the meantime so they don’t have to rush the full freeway connection.

If this Highway 3 freeway ultimately connects to the 401... you have a chance to perhaps renumber it... as the 403!

The current 403 could be renumbered to something else... with the Gardiner now going into provincial hands you could maybe have 403/QEW-403/QEW/Gardiner become a new highway number. The QEW itself would just run from Burlington to Fort Erie.

You could even number it 402 all the way to DVP (possibly 404?) with a cosigned section with the 401 between London and Woodstock.

Way too early to know if the DVP/Gardiner will get numbers but its fun to spitball for sure.
 
If this Highway 3 freeway ultimately connects to the 401... you have a chance to perhaps renumber it... as the 403!

The current 403 could be renumbered to something else... with the Gardiner now going into provincial hands you could maybe have 403/QEW-403/QEW/Gardiner become a new highway number. The QEW itself would just run from Burlington to Fort Erie.

You could even number it 402 all the way to DVP (possibly 404?) with a cosigned section with the 401 between London and Woodstock.

Way too early to know if the DVP/Gardiner will get numbers but its fun to spitball for sure.
402 from Sarnia to the Freeman Interchange in Burlington, 410 from the 401 south to the QEW through Mississauga. That would then allow for the St. Thomas section to be the 403.
 
If this Highway 3 freeway ultimately connects to the 401... you have a chance to perhaps renumber it... as the 403!

The current 403 could be renumbered to something else... with the Gardiner now going into provincial hands you could maybe have 403/QEW-403/QEW/Gardiner become a new highway number. The QEW itself would just run from Burlington to Fort Erie.

You could even number it 402 all the way to DVP (possibly 404?) with a cosigned section with the 401 between London and Woodstock.

Way too early to know if the DVP/Gardiner will get numbers but its fun to spitball for sure.
Slightly off topic but, when will they renumber highway 11 from Barrie to North Bay to a 400 series highway, same thing how we have 115/35, why not give it a proper number?
 
Slightly off topic but, when will they renumber highway 11 from Barrie to North Bay to a 400 series highway, same thing how we have 115/35, why not give it a proper number?
Because neither are build to 400-series standards. At grade intersections and direct business access would be the big stoppers. Hwy 11 north of Gravenhurst is probably the closest but still has at-grade intersections. Most of Hwy south of Gravenhurst - not even close.
 
Other former provincial highways have been maintained by Toronto for decades now. Highway 2, aka Lake Shore Blvd. and Kingston Road; Highway 5, aka Dundas Street West, Bloor Street, and Danforth Road; Highway 11, aka Yonge Street; Highway 11A, aka University Avenue and Avenue Road; Highway 48, aka Markham Road; Highway 50, aka Albion Road.

Highways following streets in Old Toronto were always maintained by Toronto or Metro before, regardless of them being numbered.
 
Because neither are build to 400-series standards. At grade intersections and direct business access would be the big stoppers. Hwy 11 north of Gravenhurst is probably the closest but still has at-grade intersections. Most of Hwy south of Gravenhurst - not even close.

Also, the MTO will not necessarily renumber a highway just because it was upgraded to 400-series standards. Highway 7 west of Ottawa, Highway 8 in south Kitchener, or Highway 115 between Pontypool and Peterborough are examples. Only if it’s a stand-alone route will it get designated as such.
 
Highway 27 (between Eglinton and Steeles) is still maintained by Toronto.

Black Creek Blvd. was to be a southern extension of Highway 400 to Weston Rd., is still maintained by Toronto.

Spadina Expressway, now known as Allen Rd., between Sheppard and Eglinton, is still maintained by Toronto.

Other former provincial highways have been maintained by Toronto for decades now. Highway 2, aka Lake Shore Blvd. and Kingston Road; Highway 5, aka Dundas Street West, Bloor Street, and Danforth Road; Highway 11, aka Yonge Street; Highway 11A, aka University Avenue and Avenue Road; Highway 48, aka Markham Road; Highway 50, aka Albion Road.
It's called connecting link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecting_Link

It's a program where Ontario pays the cities to subsidies maintenance of those roadway and are designed as provincial highways.
 
Slightly off topic but, when will they renumber highway 11 from Barrie to North Bay to a 400 series highway, same thing how we have 115/35, why not give it a proper number?

Because neither are build to 400-series standards. At grade intersections and direct business access would be the big stoppers. Hwy 11 north of Gravenhurst is probably the closest but still has at-grade intersections. Most of Hwy south of Gravenhurst - not even close.

You could in theory give the 411 number to the small stretch of Highway 11 between the Highway 400 split and the first RIRO (right in, right out) exit, but it would be too short and confusing to people. Same goes for the 35/115. You could call this the 415 or maybe 435 for like a km at most before it loses full freeway standards.

At Highway 11, Highway 400 exits itself so you could renumber the 400 freeway north of here as the 469, and give the 400 number to 11 for a km or two before the first RIRO exit... but that would just confuse the hell outa people lol
 
You could in theory give the 411 number to the small stretch of Highway 11 between the Highway 400 split and the first RIRO (right in, right out) exit, but it would be too short and confusing to people. Same goes for the 35/115. You could call this the 415 or maybe 435 for like a km at most before it loses full freeway standards.

At Highway 11, Highway 400 exits itself so you could renumber the 400 freeway north of here as the 469, and give the 400 number to 11 for a km or two before the first RIRO exit... but that would just confuse the hell outa people lol
An administrative change for no real purpose. Besides, between 'the split' and the first interchange at Line 3, there are two at grade intersections and several direct business access points, which is outside the 400-series parameters. Actually, the slightly longer than 1km stretch between the split (we used to call it Willow Creek) and the interchange at Crown Hill (CR 93) is neither Hwy 400 or 11. It has a connecting link MTO administrative number.
 
You could in theory give the 411 number to the small stretch of Highway 11 between the Highway 400 split and the first RIRO (right in, right out) exit, but it would be too short and confusing to people. Same goes for the 35/115. You could call this the 415 or maybe 435 for like a km at most before it loses full freeway standards.
The 115 north of the split between 35/115 is built to 400-series standards, but yes everything south of that split is nowhere close, so it would be super confusing. If anything, what I'd like to see is the short stretch of RIRO between the split and the 407 interchange upgraded to 400-series standards, and then the 115 from the 407 to Hwy 7 east of Peterborough renumbered as 407. The 115 number would then disappear completely, and the RIRO section between the 401 and 407 would simply be Hwy 35.

In Peterborough, the current junction of 7/115 would be renumbered. Hwy 7 would continue straight east, while the WB-SB left turn would be to get onto the 407.
 
The 115 north of the split between 35/115 is built to 400-series standards, but yes everything south of that split is nowhere close, so it would be super confusing. If anything, what I'd like to see is the short stretch of RIRO between the split and the 407 interchange upgraded to 400-series standards, and then the 115 from the 407 to Hwy 7 east of Peterborough renumbered as 407. The 115 number would then disappear completely, and the RIRO section between the 401 and 407 would simply be Hwy 35.

In Peterborough, the current junction of 7/115 would be renumbered. Hwy 7 would continue straight east, while the WB-SB left turn would be to get onto the 407.
Except by removing the 115 designation, it makes it more difficult to navigate. You'll see 35 on the map and 407 connecting to it. You'll tell them to stay on the 35 so it becomes the 407 eastbound. With the 115 designation, you simply tell anyone to follow 115 from the 401 to Peterborough.
 
The 115 north of the split between 35/115 is built to 400-series standards, but yes everything south of that split is nowhere close, so it would be super confusing. If anything, what I'd like to see is the short stretch of RIRO between the split and the 407 interchange upgraded to 400-series standards, and then the 115 from the 407 to Hwy 7 east of Peterborough renumbered as 407. The 115 number would then disappear completely, and the RIRO section between the 401 and 407 would simply be Hwy 35.

In Peterborough, the current junction of 7/115 would be renumbered. Hwy 7 would continue straight east, while the WB-SB left turn would be to get onto the 407.
If this does happen, they'll have to make the 407 free for that portion or else there will be some intense outrage. Maybe even make their owned section of the highway through Durham also free as well which I don't see happening.
 
Except by removing the 115 designation, it makes it more difficult to navigate. You'll see 35 on the map and 407 connecting to it. You'll tell them to stay on the 35 so it becomes the 407 eastbound. With the 115 designation, you simply tell anyone to follow 115 from the 401 to Peterborough.
I think it'd just be, from the 401, take 35, and then 407 east. The section between current 407 terminus and the 35/115 split can be co-signed as 35 / 407.
 
I think it'd just be, from the 401, take 35, and then 407 east. The section between current 407 terminus and the 35/115 split can be co-signed as 35 / 407.
I guess it is much easier with GPS these days. Reading it from a provincial map back in the 80s wouldn't be as easy. Destinations were designed for navigation till Mike Harris destroyed the system.
 

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