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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

lenaitch said:
You're talking 400-series, as well as a few others, right? There are all sorts of King's Highways that don't have merge/exit lanes, but do have lots of at-grade intersections, private driveways, etc.

I'd really like them to trial it somewhere. There is a stretch of Quebec 20 that is prone to heavy fog rolling in from the river that has it. There are a number of spots that are prone to snow squalls where it might help. One problem would be the transient nature of the squall. Fog rolls in, but whiteouts can be come and gone in a blink. I don't know how flexible or sensitive the technology is.
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Variable speed limits would be really helpful for managing the whiteouts that hit the 401 and 402 between Sarnia/Windsor and London. Every time it happens there’s pretty much a guarantee that there’s going to be a massive multi-vehicle pileup due to the speeds that the average person drives on those stretches despite being in bad weather.
 
ericmacm said:
Variable speed limits would be really helpful for managing the whiteouts that hit the 401 and 402 between Sarnia/Windsor and London. Every time it happens there’s pretty much a guarantee that there’s going to be a massive multi-vehicle pileup due to the speeds that the average person drives on those stretches despite being in bad weather.
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Yup, as well as eastern Ontario around Cobourg and Belleville and 400 in the Muskoka area. The problem would be that the sensors would have to almost continuous through the area since the squalls and streamers are so transient.
 
Deadpool X said:
I wonder why you would need variable speed limit sign for congestion? People automatically slow down if the traffic ahead is slow. People can't drive at 100 even if the sign says 100 when there is congestion.
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Some people would immediately accelerate back to 110 to come across with another standstill. Variable speed limit would give people immediate notice of traffic conditions ahead.

Deadpool X said:
Yes, with strictly enforced limits, of course. We don't want people continuing to drive 20 over the limit at 120. However, there are many more driving habits worse than speeding at 130 in your lane. Merging at a speed of 60, or changing 4 lanes to make your exit, or exiting after the exit lane has forked are much worse.
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If people are following their GPS and aren't paying attention, shame on them. However, there are some bad designs on the 401 express to collector transfers that require aggressive lane changing maneuvers. 401 eastbound from express to Leslie, or Kennedy are examples. I'm not a fan of the design.
 
Steve X said:
Some people would immediately accelerate back to 110 to come across with another standstill. Variable speed limit would give people immediate notice of traffic conditions ahead.


If people are following their GPS and aren't paying attention, shame on them. However, there are some bad designs on the 401 express to collector transfers that require aggressive lane changing maneuvers. 401 eastbound from express to Leslie, or Kennedy are examples. I'm not a fan of the design.
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And westbound transfer to collectors to exit immediately to Mavis now.
 
Ontario spent a ton of money on those colour changeable message signs. Surely they can just keep pumping them out by bulk to make more for variable speed limits?

If there's heavy traffic, these signs can tell you to reduce your speed to 80 as you approach the congestion, for example. That would help things move more efficiently, and also increase safety as you don't have to slam on the brakes going 100+.

You see these all over the place in Europe. They can be done here. They would also help with our crazy weather- if there are white out conditions ahead you can alert drivers to slow down and 'drive with more care'.

Obv not everyone will abide by these, but every little bit helps?

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Most of the 400 series was designed for 130. In rural areas (and maybe the 407) we should start some 120 trials, and if they work well like the 110 trials, make them permanent and move towards 130 trials.

The 400 series as a overall network is one of the best designed freeway systems in the world. We can do 130 if we commit to it.
 
Being designed for a certain speed in ideal conditions does not equate that that should be the speed limit. There are considerations to take into account, including weather, having an allowance for overtaking, congestion, unexpected situations.

Not to mention the segment of drivers who see speed limits as a challenge of "how much higher than the posted limit can I go"

As an example the stretch of 401 EB between Markham Rd and Sheppard has some pretty tight curves. I typically slow down to 100-105 Km/hr through this stretch from my usual 115-120 km/hr, especially now where construction has made the lanes narrow. I can't imagine trying to thread a vehicle through that segment at 130 Km/hr with traffic, weather, etc.

Similarly the 409/427/401 triangle has some pretty tight curves that are tough to navigate at 120 let alone 130+ (I'm thinking specifically of the 409 EB to 401 EB merger)
 
I thought that variable speed limits were also used in some jurisdictions for managing congestion. You can disrupt the traveling wave of a traffic slowdown by delaying arriving traffic.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Being designed for a certain speed in ideal conditions does not equate that that should be the speed limit. There are considerations to take into account, including weather, having an allowance for overtaking, congestion, unexpected situations.

Not to mention the segment of drivers who see speed limits as a challenge of "how much higher than the posted limit can I go"

As an example the stretch of 401 EB between Markham Rd and Sheppard has some pretty tight curves. I typically slow down to 100-105 Km/hr through this stretch from my usual 115-120 km/hr, especially now where construction has made the lanes narrow. I can't imagine trying to thread a vehicle through that segment at 130 Km/hr with traffic, weather, etc.

Similarly the 409/427/401 triangle has some pretty tight curves that are tough to navigate at 120 let alone 130+ (I'm thinking specifically of the 409 EB to 401 EB merger)
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Agree - but I am saying we should do this in rural areas were traffic is light and roads are generally straight. Your referencing busy areas smack dab in the middle of Canada's largest metro area and at areas that curve a bit. The 100 limit should still apply here, obviously.

A 130 example stretch is the 402 between Sarnia and Strathroy as it is almost as straight and flat as a runway. If conditions are ideal traffic and weather wise, you could basically turn this into a drag strip if we wanted. Other 120-130 stretches include those aready at 110 (excluding the QEW), the 403 between Woodstock and Hamilton, the 416, 401 east of 416, and the 400 north of the Highway 11 split. You could also increase the 400's limit between the edge of Toronto's metro and Barrie- as this stretch is being upgraded with all kinds of modern design features - or perhaps wait until the ultimate widening is complete before upping it.

Once the 401 is fully 6-laned from Tilbury to London, you could up that stretch too, and maybe the London to Kitchener stretch as well.
 
Steve X said:
401 eastbound from express to Leslie, or Kennedy are examples. I'm not a fan of the design.
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Also the collector at Kennedy going east... if you are in the right most lane you have to do 3 lanes switches left to stay on
 
Haljackey said:
Agree - but I am saying we should do this in rural areas were traffic is light and roads are generally straight. Your referencing busy areas smack dab in the middle of Canada's largest metro area and at areas that curve a bit. The 100 limit should still apply here, obviously.

A 130 example stretch is the 402 between Sarnia and Strathroy as it is almost as straight and flat as a runway. If conditions are ideal traffic and weather wise, you could basically turn this into a drag strip if we wanted. Other 120-130 stretches include those aready at 110 (excluding the QEW), the 403 between Woodstock and Hamilton, the 416, 401 east of 416, and the 400 north of the Highway 11 split. You could also increase the 400's limit between the edge of Toronto's metro and Barrie- as this stretch is being upgraded with all kinds of modern design features - or perhaps wait until the ultimate widening is complete before upping it.

Once the 401 is fully 6-laned from Tilbury to London, you could up that stretch too, and maybe the London to Kitchener stretch as well.
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Highway 400 is only 110 between Lake Joseph Road (the south interchange, near MacTier) and Highway 559 at the northern end.
 
Steve X said:
Some people would immediately accelerate back to 110 to come across with another standstill. Variable speed limit would give people immediate notice of traffic conditions ahead.


If people are following their GPS and aren't paying attention, shame on them. However, there are some bad designs on the 401 express to collector transfers that require aggressive lane changing maneuvers. 401 eastbound from express to Leslie, or Kennedy are examples. I'm not a fan of the design.
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I really hate the 401 at Kennedy Road in both directions because of the right lane suddenly dropping off, but especially in the eastbound direction. Not only do you have the weaving off the express, you have drivers suddenly forced to shift to the left to stay on the 401.
 
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